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Old 04-18-2017, 20:34   #16
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TR, if the goal is to reach the RP, why add all the additional weight of long guns and ammo, after all said and done, you are an army of one. Confrontation is the absolute worst outcome.

100 mile run across a known AO with the least resistance in load would seem
prudent, if not essential to completing the movement.
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Old 04-18-2017, 20:56   #17
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Originally Posted by TOMAHAWK9521 View Post
. As for my initial thought for firearms, long range shots with optics can be limited in heavy timber (I learned that in CO) so for a rifle I'm thinking my Marlin 45-70 lever gun with iron sights. .
I own a Marlin 45-70, use 300 grain and 405 grain in it for elk, deer and bear. Ammo is heavy, and the drop after 100 yards is quite significant. If I were bugging out, it wouldn't be my first choice. However, your 100 miles is different then mine. I just left Japan, I'm in the Midwest now. Heading to Europe for my next assignment. If the balloon went up tonight, I'm already at my BOL. When I'm in Europe, well, crap.
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Old 04-18-2017, 23:10   #18
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Urban AO

AR-15 BCM 14.5 P&W w Troy collapsible stock, 28.5" OAL
HaleyStrat wpn light
OSS BPR-27 +6.5" OAL
Magpul multipoint sling
Trig RM08-C w LaRue mount

7 x 32rd DD Mags w 77gr 1.146lb ea

Ruger SR22P
2 x 15rd mag & 150 rds subsonic
SilencerCo Sparrow SS
No holster yet

Springfield XDm 5.25 9mm nightsights
3 x 19 rd +1 w Hornaday CD
Paddle holster

TerraLUX TT-4

Canon 10x42 L IS

Just under 24lb. whew! Drop the 22 or two 32rd mags...
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:08   #19
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Good points TR. After reconsidering, I think Golf1echo's mentioning of a pellet gun is the perfect swap for the heavy/loud 870.

Originally Posted by Golf1echo View Post
...and perhaps the BB/pellet gun.
Thanks G1e, I had forgotten about my trusty pellet gun and all the weight and sound it saves!
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:51   #20
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Had a guy show me a Kel-Tec Sub2000. The first thing I thought was how it would fit in a backpack.

I personally am of the notion of never bring a knife to a gunfight and never bring a pistol to a rifle fight. I would still want an AR variant. I'm still a 5.56 fan. My current is a hand built 16" mid length. Good all around. I would lighten my basic load to probably 4 mags.

I too would go with my XdM 5.25, it is a competition gun but would be excellent for engagements with a longer sight radius and slightly better accuracy with the longer barrel.

The idea of a portable .22 survival rifle appeals for small game but for 100 miles, I'm not sure if food is high on my list. Travel light, freeze at night, but get there more quicklier.

This is more about the weapons and I consider pyrotechnics to be in that category. I'm going to carry a few to 3 HC Smokes IOT break contact and if we can carry anything and one could get them, a "drop kick" Claymore™ with time fuse would be on my break contact battle drill list.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:55   #21
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My plan's pretty low key. I can't move fast, so I intend to be an "unappetizing" target (not worth the pain to "F" with).

M4gery w/suppressor, 1x6.5 scope, and DBAL I2
9 x PMag w/Mk 262 or equivalent
Still debating the Harris bipod.

XDm 5.25 in 9mm
5 x mags w/Hornaday CD

Ruger 22/45 w/suppressor
3 x mags + 150 .22 LR SV


Bushnell 10 x 40 Fusion 1600 LRF Binos

Battle Belt, Chest Rig, and BoB, contents covered elsewhere.
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.

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Old 04-19-2017, 09:56   #22
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For those of us that have never done this...

What's a realistic time estimate for a trip like this?

The conditions were, (correct me if I'm wrong):
100 miles, solo, on foot, some pursuit necessitating E&E.

Baseline subject could be a man in good shape, say, able to pass the Army PT test, but not Ranger-school fit.

Is 100 miles under those conditions a one-week trip? Three days of intense movement? A month of really stealthy movement?

(All this can't account for say, injuries, or having to spend a night in a tree avoiding trackers. etc. )
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:10   #23
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Originally Posted by TFA303 View Post
For those of us that have never done this...

What's a realistic time estimate for a trip like this?

The conditions were, (correct me if I'm wrong):
100 miles, solo, on foot, some pursuit necessitating E&E.

Your terrain will have a great impact on your travel time. Hills, Mountains, forest, desert....

Few of will traverse 100 miles of flat plains in sunny 50 -60 deg weather.

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Old 04-19-2017, 10:30   #24
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Had a guy show me a Kel-Tec Sub2000. The first thing I thought was how it would fit in a backpack.
If re-arming possible at RP, and priority during movement is to avoid contact, this *might* be one instance that a pistol-cal carbine would make sense. Set up to share a suppressor with your sidearm of choice, one caliber to pack, modest but useful range and mag cap increases, able to mount an optic, a bit less weight and easier to conceal than most M4/16s. Not ideal for open country, large quadruped predators, or prolonged persecution. Would require a new purchase for most folks, little incentive if you already run an AR.

I really like looks of the Vortex monocular and reticle; appreciate the suggestion.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:24   #25
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DD MK18 SBR w/ AAC SDN6 Suppressor
Eotech EXPS3
7 loaded PMAGS - 62gr.
Magpul MS4 Sling
Surefire Torch

Glock G34 w/ 3mags
Safariland Paddle Holster

Alice Rucksack
Poncho Liner
3 pairs socks
foot powder
small first aid kit
bug spray
iodine tablets
life straw
tent poles
couple pounds homemade deer jerky
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends", John 15:1.
“He should have armed himself if he’s gonna decorate his saloon with my friend”, Clint Eastwood, The Unforgiven.
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Old 04-19-2017, 14:31   #26
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A couple things:

1)Has anyone seen the takedown AR15 SBRs?

Some videos of a few able to stuffed into a camera bag or vehicle centre console sized cubic volume.

What say you about the value of discretion over reduced long range performance?

Use pistol to fight to long?

2)What does everyone use for water storage/sterilisation/filtration?

I prefer 1 no more than 2 canteens, the rest in a single large bladder with a backup heavy duty rubbish bag.

For water sterilisation, I like my Katadyn portable pump filter.

I own Life Straws and Steripens. The Steripen demands high end batteries for efficacy. For me, I carry the Katadyn and Steripen as backup.


For food I carry long shelf life hugh energy density, small cube snacks.

4)Mini-Bivvy for colder areas/months?

I've used an ultra light mini-bivvy for civvie climbing in NZ and Colorado, ultra light, very small cube. I just leave my gear on bar boots/socks and hop in.
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Old 04-19-2017, 14:51   #27
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Originally Posted by miclo18d View Post
Had a guy show me a Kel-Tec Sub2000. The first thing I thought was how it would fit in a backpack.
The Sub2000 does fit nicely into a backpack/briefcase/etc. Have carried one into places that do not allow a legally concealed or open carried handgun.

Another advantage is the SUB-2000 is available in the following variants, so you can use the same magazines for both carbine and pistol
Smith & Wesson M&P (9mm or .40cal)
Sig Sauer P226 (9mm or .40cal)
Beretta 92 & 96
Glock 17, 19, 22 & 23

Last edited by bblhead672; 04-19-2017 at 14:57.
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Old 04-19-2017, 16:39   #28
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Originally Posted by Constant View Post
I own a Marlin 45-70, use 300 grain and 405 grain in it for elk, deer and bear. Ammo is heavy, and the drop after 100 yards is quite significant. If I were bugging out, it wouldn't be my first choice. However, your 100 miles is different then mine. I just left Japan, I'm in the Midwest now. Heading to Europe for my next assignment. If the balloon went up tonight, I'm already at my BOL. When I'm in Europe, well, crap.
My choice did seem counterintuitive but I was thinking of a previous black bear encounter I had as well as most of the documented grizzly encounters and they tend to occur in close proximities and I'd rather stop Yogi's attack instead of just pissing him off.

All that being said, with my current location, I'm better off staying right where I'm at and putting out the near/far recognition signal to other QP's looking for a place to hold up. The only threat that would encourage me to move is if the Yellowstone Caldera "Super Volcano" kicked off. :roll eyes: And if that happened, you couldn't move fast enough.
"It is a brave act of valor to condemn death, but where life is more terrible than death, it is then the truest valor to dare to live." -Sir Thomas Browne (1605-1682)

Last edited by TOMAHAWK9521; 04-19-2017 at 16:45.
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Old 04-19-2017, 18:50   #29
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MK18 Rifle
T-1/Larue Sight
Knight’s Armament QDSS NT4suppressor
Surefire ight
7 Mags of Mk 272 Ammo

Sig 229R with Surefire Light (could be used on rifle also)
Trijicon Night sights
OWB holster TBD
4 x 15 round mags of 147 Rangers
extra 229 40 Cal barrel (Lots of extra ammo out there)

Ruger 22/45 or 10/22 Takedown (Still weighing options)

Takedown would fit good in a backpack
4-5 Magazines of quality ammo
Low power scope or an optic I could use on rifle and pistol

PVS 14 (Uses same batteries as SF Lights)
Small Steiner Binos

3 day pack with:
Contractor garbage bags
550 cord
First aide kit
High energy food, protein bars, jerky
E&E Kit with fishing supplies
solar recharger for batteries

I have been doing a lot of research on using police scanners (Digital & Analog) to monitor local PD, FD and Local Government radio. I can also get State Police, National Guard Aviation & Ground and all types of other broadcasts. I can be better informed listening directly from the source than any news broadcast. If you listen you can learn a lot (Just like on here). Not much weight but lots of intel, and even entertainment.

Maps, Compass, Protractor, Google Maps photos, As much intel as I can take to help navigate. Make it easy to find locations. Show roads, buildings, farms, forests, airports, highways, industrial areas, uninformed routes of travel
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Old 04-19-2017, 18:57   #30
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Originally Posted by The Reaper View Post
I know we have touched on this in other threads, but things may have changed, or someone has a new opinion.

For this scenario, let’s say you have to hit the road (on foot), alone, in ten minutes. You need to be prepared to move at least 100 miles cross country to an alternate safe site / Bug Out Location you have access to. Hopefully, you have your Second Line (carriage) and Third Line (ruck) packed and ready to go, though we could discuss what we have in them as well. Your safe and ammo better be easily accessible. Assume that there will be two-and four-legged predators looking for you along the way. You will be by yourself for this movement, assume that others will meet you at the bug-out location and you will not encounter friendlies en route. Avoiding contact would be the best plan.

The primary issue for discussion here is what weapons you would select to bring with you.

Accessories, optics, slings, holsters, lights, spare mags, ammo, etc., should be listed as well, and their weight added to the total.

Remember that weapons and ammo are heavy. Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain. Good slings and holsters make the load more manageable, but 100 pounds of lightweight gear still weighs 100 pounds. If we assume that your ruck should weigh no more than 45 pounds loaded, with water, and your second line gear (minus armor, weapons and ammo) weighs ten (plus any water carried on it), you probably would not want to add much more than 25 pounds of guns and ammo, in total, if you want to be able to move. Eighty pounds is a lot of weight for someone not accustomed to carrying it, and if you have not practiced with carrying the weight over distances, cross-country, you might want to give it a try before you decide to bring your Barrett M-82 and 1000 rounds.

What you have is what you have, minus water and food you might acquire along the way, no caches or friendlies to resupply from, though en route caches might be a good discussion for another thread.

Rifle: Lightweight Bravo Company M-4 variant, 5.56
Trijicon ACOG TA-31 and LaRue mount
Surefire X300
VCAS sling
Seven loaded 30 round mags
Spare batteries
16 lbs.

Pistol: Glock 19, Gen 4, with night sights, 9x19
One loaded fifteen round mag and two 17 round mags with +2 base pads
Strong side holster (still searching for the perfect one)
Surefire pressure switch for X200
3.5 lbs.

Rimfire pistol: Ruger .22/45, Mk 3, .22 LR
SilencerCo Sparrow SS suppressor
Three ten-round mags of .22 LR Standard Velocity, loaded, and 100 spare rounds
Holster (still searching for the perfect one)
4 lbs.

Could you dispense with one of the weapons, like the long gun, a pistol, or maybe the rifle and a pistol, counting on speed for security? The answer might depend on what you have at your BOL for replacement firearms.

What is your firearms load out for this scenario?

I think I may be in a unique situation, because I can go 100 miles and still be in a pretty urban environment from where I live. Walking around with a ruck or a long gun would make me stand out like a sore thumb.

So, I'm thinking no ruck, no long gun. I'll carry an H&K USP Compact .40 IWB, wear a baseball cap, and carry a small daypack with some basic toiletries, change of clothes, water, food, three loaded extra mags, a light, and perhaps a few boxes of extra ammo if it fits. Small first aid kit and small emergency survival pack too. What I really need to transit this environment and avoid detection are a few burner phones, several loaded debit cards, and plenty of cash. I can resupply en route, so I don't need to carry a lot of anything.

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