New BDUs

[Capt_G]

The Army is adopting a new BDU called the Ground Warrior Combat Uniform...

[eggroll]

perhaps a little more information would be too much to ask?

EGG

[QRQ 30]

Does it mean that it is only for warriors? I'm willing to bet that the REMF non-warriors will be wearing it before the true warriors.

That's kind of like the Seiko Watches, survival knives and wrist compasses in C&C, Everyone in Danang had them and we were lucky to maybe get one. I guess clerks needed the compass to navigate to the snack bar and back and the watch to know when it is time to get off. I'm not sure what they needed the survival knife for unless it was to fish in the water jug. They also had boonie hats with panels sewen inside and pen-flares in case they needed an extraction from the local Ho-house.

[rubberneck]

From the Army Times:

10 BDU changes in the works

By Matthew Cox
Times staff writer

When soldiers in the Army’s first Stryker brigade deploy to Iraq next month, they will be outfitted in a unique new uniform.
The troops will be wearing the “Close Combat Uniform,� an experimental redesign of the Battle Dress Uniform aimed to better suit the needs of today’s combat soldiers.

The changes are intended to be practical, but several are a striking departure from the current BDU, including a mandarin-style collar, large pockets on the shoulders, built-in knee and elbow pads and a zip-up shirt.

Command Sgt. Major Mike Kelso drew a lot of attention when he modeled the prototype uniform at the 2003 Infantry Conference at Fort Benning, Ga., held Sept. 8 to 12.

“I’ve gotten a lot of comments on it,� said Kelso, the command sergeant major of the Infantry Center, after giving conference-goers a look at the new uniform, cut from the current BDU woodland pattern and made specifically for him. Kelso said he likes the many changes.

Each soldier in the Fort Lewis, Wash.-based 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division is being issued two sets of the redesigned uniform in the Army’s standard desert camouflage pattern, said Barry Hauck, assistant product manager for Product Manager Clothing and Individual Equipment.

Soldiers in that brigade offered a lot of input into potential changes needed in a new BDU, so when unit leaders requested sets to wear on deployment to Iraq with, uniform officials complied. But those soldiers will not be a formal part of the test process. That role goes to the second Stryker Brigade Combat Team, part of the 25th Infantry Division at Lewis, who will wear and test the new duds from November through February. They will be at the forefront of evaluations that will factor into whether the uniform one day could be issued Army-wide.

“The second Stryker brigade is our test vehicle,� Hauck said.

Uniform officials said that deploying the uniform with the first Stryker brigade will give them a chance to see how the proposed changes hold up in an operational environment over the long term.

The Stryker brigade testing the close-combat uniform at Fort Lewis will see versions of the BDU in two styles the Army is considering as the future camouflage pattern: a gray, tan and black “urban track� design, and a “scorpion� design that is a muted version of the current woodland pattern.

The testing is separate from Army evaluations of a possible wrinkle-free BDU.

Testing the close-combat uniform won’t cost the troops involved any cash, since the Army is issuing each soldier his or her BDUs. Troops in the first Stryker brigade will get two sets each, a total of about 8,400 sets, at a cost of about $100 a pop, Hauck said.

“It’s an opportunity to say ‘we heard what you had to say.’ We are demonstrating to soldiers that we are being responsive,� Hauck said.

Most soldiers who saw the new uniform at Fort Benning liked the new pockets and other added features. Kelso even had a few more ideas, saying the Army should think about adding zippers underneath the arms for venting. Another change he recommended is to make new side-opening breast pockets a little larger.

Once the test uniform has been out in the field, soldiers no doubt will have plenty of input on what works, what doesn’t and other changes they would like to see.

The redesign effort is the first step toward the Advanced Combat Uniform, a new type of battlefield attire designed specifically for the needs of soldiers in combat.

Over the long haul, the ACU is supposed to create a multi-layer uniform that eliminates the need for inclement weather gear and nuclear, biological and chemical protective garments.

But in the short term, the ACU includes a number of practical improvements to the BDU based on soldier suggestions, said Dave Nelson, deputy product manager for clothing and individual equipment.

“The key to the concept is it’s a combat uniform, not a garrison uniform,� said Dave Geringer, assistant product manager for Product Manager Clothing and Individual Equipment.

This will no doubt create challenges the Army will have to address, Nelson said. Some will be small, such as how soldiers will wear unit shoulder patches if shoulder pockets are added to the uniform.

Others will be more complex, such as the logistical challenges of having a uniform designed specifically for combat, Nelson said.

“There are cultural and logistical decisions that have to be carefully considered with just about every path we take,� Nelson said, adding that this is just one step in a long process.

“It is too early to say whether this is going to replace BDUs.�

Basic changes
Pockets on the shoulders, a feature liked by special operations soldiers. Uniform officials have yet to determine how rank insignia would be attached, but velcro strips similar to those used by Spec Ops soldiers is one possibility.
No more lower pockets on the front of the BDU shirt. The two pockets have often been criticized as impractical when wearing body armor and load-bearing gear, and have been removed.

Side openings on the remaining two front breast pockets so they are accessible from the side where body armor opens.

Knee and elbow pockets — added so soldiers can insert hard or soft protective padding.

No more rear trouser pockets.

Raised side cargo pockets to make them more accessible.

New pockets on the outer calf have been added to make small items easily reachable when in the kneeling position.

Comfort and appearance

The shirt has a zippered front instead of buttons, meant to be faster to take on and off, and better venting. A flap secured by Velcro folds over the zipper for concealment.

The shirt is shorter, in order to cut down on bulk when soldiers tuck it in during field operations.

A mandarin-style collar. Solders proposed this change for better protection from weather and when soldiers are participating in air-assault missions. The collar is held closed with a Velcro tab. The collar can be folded down and affixed with a rank insignia device.

[QRQ 30]

IMHO there is no need for a unit patch on a combat uniform, inless, of course, you are "profiling" instead of combattng.

When I worked with the SAS they didn't wear rank. They said they knew who was who and no body else needed to know. Combat leaders wore distinctive belts, similar to our combat leaders wearing green leadership tabs, presuming they still do.

The Army is getting close to the Boy Scouts in that before long they are going to need sasheh to display all of their ribbons (merit badges).

“The key to the concept is it’s a combat uniform, not a garrison uniform,� said Dave Geringer, assistant product manager for Product Manager Clothing and Individual Equipment.

[NousDefionsDoc]

I'm not sure I would have gone with zippers on the shirt front and I know I wouldn't want them under my arms. The green tick will find them and use them against me. Other than that and except for the collar (which sounds like a good idea) I don't see much difference in this and what Mamasan used to do to the OG 107s for us.

Everybody has a beret now, why not? LOL

Edit to add - I agree with QRQ about the rank and unit patches. We always knew who the Boss was.

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by rubberneck
“The key to the concept is it’s a combat uniform, not a garrison uniform,� said Dave Geringer, assistant product manager for Product Manager Clothing and Individual Equipment.

So was the BDU, when it first came out.

Wonder how long before the maternity version of this "combat uniform" will be available?

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

LOL - Diane Fienstien is probably working them on it now.

Since they took out the lower pockets on the blouse, I wonder where the 10th Group guys are going to put their pipes and tobacco bags?

I'll bet there will be an increase in the purchase of man purses and a move to authorize use of same in uniform.

[Kyobanim]

That was a good one

[BMT (RIP)]

Wonder how long before the maternity version of this "combat uniform" will be available??

They will be tested by MPs assign to prison guard duty.

I was kinda worried the color might be like the AF.

BMT
Jr. FOG

[Adam White]

Originally posted by rubberneck

...
The shirt is shorter, in order to cut down on bulk when soldiers tuck it in during field operations.

?

Have any of you ever had a problem with too much bulk from your t-shirt?

I can't keep the damn things tucked in as they are now!

Changes? Why don't they start with a belt wide enough to actually hold your pants up?

I think the sipper is a bad idea - zippers are either too heavy or they break. Why would speed of donning or doffing be so important?

[Capt_G]

Zippers are in and yes, some CSMs have been asking for a "maternity" version. Buttons are definitely out. There have been some discussions about back face deformation from armor and its associated blunt trauma. Velcro is everywhere on the uniform, it doesn't bother me, but some guys think that they are going to be given away when they reach into a pocket for a snickers bar. You will velcro unit patches and even tabs on the sleeve pockets. There are also plans for an aviator syle patch on the chest of the "GWCU" with your name, U S Army and up to four badges.
Additionally, you are correct, it is going to everyone, Army-wide. Silly Army, since they are at war and everyone is getting shot at regardless of MOS, they decided that even the "REMF"s need a good combat uniform. However, the plan is that whole units get it for OIF-3 so that the entire force will deploy with it. This is how it is going with most new soldier system items under the Rapid Fielding Initiative.
There have been some moves afoot to do a separate uniform for ARSOF, but I think this is a bad idea. It will just make you guys standout and you need to blend in with the REMFs so as not to arise suspicion with the locals. I think the ARSOF initiatives were just some leaning forward in the foxhole before the Army got its act together.
And friends, please don't cross post this on Lightfighter. I put it in here cuz this is a forum for real-deal guys.

[DanUCSB]

I have to say that this all sounds a bit unfortunate. What BDUs need are a few small, incremental changes, rather than all this 'the 88Ms want zippers and velcro!' shit. (No offense to 88Ms.) There are many problems with this idea, IMO.

The first is that the BDU as it is is a fine combat uniform, with a few modifications. Arm pockets and a wider/stronger (authorized) belt are what immediately pop to mind. Maybe extra/wider belt loops on the trousers. The lower blouse pockets are pretty useless, sure, but I've never seen them actually get in the way, so it's a non-issue. Maybe a better camouflage pattern (although, an argument could well be made that it's irrelevant if we're sending men to the desert with desert camouflage and woodland accoutrements). All in all, little modifications that many (most?) effective units already make.

But the rest is silly. Knee and elbow pouches so that you can stick padding in? (Nowhere near as effective as real knee/elbow pads.) A zippered top so you can get into suntan-mode faster? (Zipper break/catch/unzip... can you fix a broken zip as quickly as you can sew on a new button?) Shorter shirt-tails? (When the current ones come untucked too easily as-is?) Velcro for patches/rank (Isn't this what pin-on was supposed to be for?) and as fasteners (Which takes all of one brush against a tree branch/rear-view mirror/whatever to undo, versus an infinitely-more-sturdy button?)

In all, terrible idea. Just implement the BDU changes that soldiers have been asking for for years, and quit trying to change shit for the sake of change.

[Surgicalcric]

Originally posted by DanUCSB
...Shorter shirt-tails? (When the current ones come untucked too easily as-is?) ...

It is my understanding, from reading the articles on this issue, the shortened tops were the BDU top and not the t-shirt.

[DanUCSB]

That is what I meant. The t-shirts, IMO, are fine as-is.