SF/SOF OPFOR

Longstreet · 08-01-2018, 07:03

Has anyone ever signed up to be a SF/SOF OPFOR? I am giving it serious thought as the opportunity does come up from time to time in my unit. It would probably be the closest chance I would ever have to work with such teams and seeing them in action - even if it means getting my own butt kicked - would be an amazing experience. Besides having an "I got my ass kicked by JTF2" t-shirt would be cool; however I have heard some "horror" stories where OPFOR guys have been sent to the hospital with major medical issues due to SF/SOF guys taking things a tad too far. I understand this is not the boy scouts, but from the rumours I have heard, coming home with a concussion or in a cast is a bit more than I would be bargaining for. Yes, these are some of the rumours I have heard and so I am looking to see how much validity there is to them. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.

Basenshukai · 08-01-2018, 09:25

My experience has been that those who sign up for OPFOR duty for something like the Special Forces Advanced Reconnaissance, Target Analysis, and Exploitation Techniques Course (SFARTAETC) or the Special Forces Advanced Urban Combat Course (SFAUCC) need to understand that they will play a large roll on the degree of intensity of the "contact" they have with the operators.

If you are hiding in a room and a stack of six well-trained team-guys breach in, know that if you fight them even after being "shot" or disarmed, they will fight back to get you subdued quickly so that they can clear the room and move to the next target. Oftentimes, this happens with low visibility in an unfamiliar layout. You can get thrown over furniture they didn't know was there, etc. So, if the guys come in, and you got simulated munitions rounds drilled into you, don't be a 'Rambo', or 'real' Rambos will come get ya. Remember, being OPFOR means you are there to help train the fellas, not to get a thrill out of fighting them. For each notch you turn up the heat, the fellas will turn it up like three notches higher and very quickly.

The most valuable thing you will do for them is give them honest feedback on how they conducted their operation. Help them improve.

Longstreet · 08-01-2018, 11:32

Quote:

OPFOR means you are there to help train the fellas, not to get a thrill out of fighting them. For each notch you turn up the heat, the fellas will turn it up like three notches higher and very quickly.

I guess this is where the grey area is. One of the rumours I heard was onboard a freighter ship where a warrant threw some tools down a flight of stairs to slow down the movement of a SOF team. When the team overcame the obstacle and reached the warrant, they gave him a total beat down which required him being hospitalized.
If this is true, I personally think both parties went too far; however seeing a shadow and then surrendering would be counter productive with training too.

Would it be fair to say it is best to respond as to the role you have been given in the simulation? For example, a Somalian pirate would respond differently than a local militia soldier who would act differently then a professional soldier who would act differently than a SF/SOF soldier (I would think that if the exercise was to be against SF/SOF soldiers, real SF/SOF soldiers would be used.) And while shit does happen (ex. being thrown over furniture) the idea behind the simulation is not to permanently screw anyone up, but to focus on the big picture and complete the simulation with proper action and feedback from the (ahem) SF/SOF guinea pigs. Thoughts?

**Pete** · 08-01-2018, 12:10

Do - or do not - there is no talk.

SF_BHT · 08-01-2018, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longstreet

I guess this is where the grey area is. One of the rumours I heard was onboard a freighter ship where a warrant threw some tools down a flight of stairs to slow down the movement of a SOF team. When the team overcame the obstacle and reached the warrant, they gave him a total beat down which required him being hospitalized.
If this is true, I personally think both parties went too far; however seeing a shadow and then surrendering would be counter productive with training too.

Would it be fair to say it is best to respond as to the role you have been given in the simulation? For example, a Somalian pirate would respond differently than a local militia soldier who would act differently then a professional soldier who would act differently than a SF/SOF soldier (I would think that if the exercise was to be against SF/SOF soldiers, real SF/SOF soldiers would be used.) And while shit does happen (ex. being thrown over furniture) the idea behind the simulation is not to permanently screw anyone up, but to focus on the big picture and complete the simulation with proper action and feedback from the (ahem) SF/SOF guinea pigs. Thoughts?

jaYson

You were given good advise but you keep referring to the rumors. Rumors are rumors. They get changed, inflated and twisted. No one goes into a training event with "I am going to f$@k up the OPFOR". They are mission focused and plan on accomplishing the assigned mission. They know it is training but many times the OPFOR joes decide to get one on the SOF aggressors and do not follow the rules. I will wager that the rumors are mostly what rumors are.

If you want to volunteer do it and see what the reality is.. Good luck.

Basenshukai · 08-01-2018, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SF_BHT

You were given good advise but you keep referring to the rumors. Rumors are rumors. They get changed, inflated and twisted. No one goes into a training event with "I am going to f$@k up the OPFOR". They are mission focused and plan on accomplishing the assigned mission. They know it is training but many times the OPFOR joes decide to get one on the SOF aggressors and do not follow the rules. I will wager that the rumors are mostly what rumors are.

If you want to volunteer do it and see what the reality is.. Good luck.

Exactly what SF BHT said.

Also, I have to tell you that if someone were to throw actual tools down some stairs that may have hit me, or my team mates, possibly having the effect of sidelining any one of us from a deployment, I will be coming up those stairs with a slightly different mindset, if you know what I mean.

Longstreet · 08-01-2018, 13:34

Thanks for all of the responses. To clarify though, the only reason I brought up the "rumours" was to get an insight as to how true they may be. I now understand any harm to me would be correlated to actions that I take with the SF/SOF team; however nobody can guarantee anything when Murphy is playing. And while giving up with the first rustling I hear in the woods would not be of benefit to anyone, deviating from my role and going toe-to-toe with a SF/SOF team in a "Rambo" mindset would not be a good idea either. Just follow the rules and everything will be groovey.
I think that if I am ever given the opportunity to engage in such a simulation, I would sign up. While I may be able to help the SF/SOF team with feedback, I may also benefit myself. As part of SVC BN, we are one of the targets that the enemy SF/SOF guys would be coming for. Seeing how they operate would give me some insight - and prevent me from crapping my pants - in the event I ever have to actually deal with enemy SF/SOF.

Thanks again for everyone's comments.

**Joker** · 08-01-2018, 14:56

Follow the rules (of engagement) that they give you. When OPFOR deviates from those rules/roles is when things can go sideways. We do have plenty of stories where the OPFOR failed to follow the rules they were given and were shown the consequences.

Volunteer, learn, and have fun.

SF BHT is right.

7624U · 08-01-2018, 17:27

What joker said
That goes for safety briefings if the guy running the show tells you stay off something or stay out of a taped off room and you decide to climb up on it and fall off or get a piece of wood in your face from a breaching charge that is your own fault.

scooter · 08-01-2018, 18:46

If you forget to die when shot, they'll keep shooting you. Don't put yourself in a position where hand to hand may happen, or it will. Don't get "creative".

Flagg · 08-03-2018, 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basenshukai

My experience has been that those who sign up for OPFOR duty for something like the Special Forces Advanced Reconnaissance, Target Analysis, and Exploitation Techniques Course (SFARTAETC) or the Special Forces Advanced Urban Combat Course (SFAUCC) need to understand that they will play a large roll on the degree of intensity of the "contact" they have with the operators.

If you are hiding in a room and a stack of six well-trained team-guys breach in, know that if you fight them even after being "shot" or disarmed, they will fight back to get you subdued quickly so that they can clear the room and move to the next target. Oftentimes, this happens with low visibility in an unfamiliar layout. You can get thrown over furniture they didn't know was there, etc. So, if the guys come in, and you got simulated munitions rounds drilled into you, don't be a 'Rambo', or 'real' Rambos will come get ya. Remember, being OPFOR means you are there to help train the fellas, not to get a thrill out of fighting them. For each notch you turn up the heat, the fellas will turn it up like three notches higher and very quickly.

The most valuable thing you will do for them is give them honest feedback on how they conducted their operation. Help them improve.

Agree 100%

Having been on the receiving end, if you play by big boys’ rules, expect to be treated like a big boy.

I’ve got the very close range simunition scars on legs to prove it

My team and I worked hard to support their training.

miclo18d · 08-03-2018, 05:08

In SFARTAEC we actually knocked people unconscious on occasion, while wearing “fight suits”.

I’ve had my sinus ruptured in hand-to-hand training in SFAUC. Learned that you don’t try to blow the blood out of your nose when that happens.... all the air goes into your cheek.

Back in Ranger Batt, an OPFOR was seriously injured when he fell asleep in a bunker and during the raid, woke up and before he could do anything, he had a greneade simulator thrown on his lap (tossed into the bunker). It blew up in his hands as he tried to throw it.

Things happen.....sometimes.

The advice by all here is very succinct.

**Joker** · 08-03-2018, 13:12

One target, multiple buildings. We hit the target at the first second in the "window," not at the least moment they thought we would.

1. The door charge blew, the team entered the hallway and banged the room. The rescuees were wearing goggles and hearing protection, the bad guy wasn't. When he came to, he was outside, cuffed, and searched.

2. Female who liked to sleep in the raw. The team enters the room and she only had one foot in the panties. She was searched, cuffed, and moved to the HHA as dressed. Yes she was hot (if not someone would have dressed her.)

Different target, a bus. Big guy (~6' 8" ~350 lbs all muscle) put up a fight and was throwing the good guys around. A medic jumps on his back, plunges a stun-gun in his chest, and rides him to the ground. He comes to in the HHA searched, cuffed, and with a better attitude, for about 10-minutes. Gets froggy again, so the medic walks back in front of him, puts the stun-gun about 3" in front of his nose, and pushes the button. He found the good attitude that he dropped.

Bottom line, follow instructions to the letter if you are OPFORing.