Go Back   Professional Soldiers ® > Special Forces > Special Forces Questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-25-2016, 21:16   #1
Santi
Asset
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 8
Citizen-Soldier in the NG SF?

Is being a Citizen-Soldier in the NG SF really possible? I've searched about this extensively, but have been confused due to conflicting view points. What I've learned is that it's only possible for those with careers in local/Federal Law enforcement and Fire Departments. It appears these careers provide more flexibility. Is this a possibility for other careers? The SF Citizen-Soldier is characterized by such knowledge and professionalism in diverse fields of expertise, however, I get the impression that one can only excel as one or the other, but not both. I've been confused because the website for the A/2/20 SFG states the following;

"Being both Citizens and Green Berets, we bring a unique capacity to the SF Regiment; numerous additionally honed skills not normally found in SF. These extensive capabilities reside in the day to day experiences inside the civilian sector as public and private servants. Our members work in law enforcement, federal agencies, defensive contracting, medicine, business/management, and social work." - (http://www.il.ngb.army.mil/Organizat...f/aboutus.aspx)

Other places also state many are lawyers, school teachers, own businesses, pursue Doctorate degrees and a QP on this site even posted that one of his teammates was a surgeon. The confusion stems from QP's here also implying that pursuits outside of NG SF take away from the commitment to the team. Perhaps I've misunderstood things.

It appears that excelling as both a citizen and SF soldier is not possible, but Isn't this a defining strength of the NG SF teams? Any clarification on this would be greatly appreciated, especially from anyone from A/2/20. Thank you for taking the time to read this question.

Respectfully,
Santi
Santi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 06:58   #2
blue02hd
Quiet Professional
 
blue02hd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Near the flag pole
Posts: 1,168
I'm pretty sure the Athenian military advocated for the Citizen/Soldier model as superior, until they faced the Spartans.

NG offers a great deal to the force, but if you want to excel in this arena it will require a full time commitment.

How many Tier 1 NG units are there?

YMMV
__________________
"It's not my aim, it's these damn crooked bullets,,,"

Verified Tax Payer and Future Sex Symbol
blue02hd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 09:54   #3
Soldier1984
SF Candidate
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2
NG SF

You get what you put into the NG SF companies. If you are going to spend your time concentrating on your civilian occupation you won't be an asset to a team.
Soldier1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 11:30   #4
VVVV
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier1984 View Post
You get what you put into the NG SF companies. If you are going to spend your time concentrating on your civilian occupation you won't be an asset to a team.
If you don't concentrate on your civilian occupation, you won't be an asset to your family, or yourself.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 13:24   #5
Santi
Asset
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier1984 View Post
You get what you put into the NG SF companies. If you are going to spend your time concentrating on your civilian occupation you won't be an asset to a team.
This makes sense, however, it implies that NG SF soldiers don't have successful civilian careers while serving on a team. Recruiting for NG SF suggests otherwise, so is this then an issue of theory vs. practice? Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Santi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 13:49   #6
Astronomy
Quiet Professional
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 492
Quote:
Is being a Citizen-Soldier in the NG SF really possible?
Of course it is. It's the raison d'ętre for the organization. Part Time. You're confusing recent combat deployments/OPTEMPO with the normal majority non-deployed time of any Reserve/Guard unit across a 20 or 30 year career. Naturally, when you deploy, the civilian career gets put on hold, as provided for by law and good personal planning. If you're gone to war for a year, your previous life is far, far away. You focus on the deployment and your team. But you eventually go back to that other life. Thousands of Army National Guard SF have done exactly that over the years. Some decide to volunteer for additional singleton / augmentation assignments downrange. Some cross over to Active Duty. Some do contracting gigs between unit mobilizations for wartime deployment. But most have a paid career outside of the Army... and SF.

Quote:
Perhaps I've misunderstood things.
Yes, you have. By definition, SF Guard are not full time Soldiers except when activated for State Duty, attending schools, gone for training deployments, assigned to AGR billets, or while Federalized (e.g., for combat rotations). All carefully scheduled to meet laws limiting their duration of employment.

I served in SF for 32 years. 7 of those in the Reserve (11th). I was also an Active Duty advisor to a 19th Guard SF battalion for 4 years (and went to war with them).

People have other jobs. The force tends to attract a heavy representation of law enforcement careers. This at everything from local to state to federal level. But many other livelihoods are represented.

Across the seven years I was assigned, my Reserve ODA always had several cops. Sheriff's Deputy, Big City Police Detective, ATF Agent, & Small Town Police Chief. But we also had a Sports Physiologist/High School Teacher, several Full Time College Students, Auto Repair Center Owner, Pharmaceutical Salesman, Real Estate Company Executive VP, Civil Engineer with a major construction corporation, and a few others.

In that company, other team guys filled a variety of civilian occupations: Trauma Surgeon, Attorney, Financial Advisor, Stock Broker, College English Professor, Residential Building Contractor, State Trooper, FBI Agent, Banker, LPN, P.A., Town Mayor, Corporate Petroleum Geologist, FAA Commercial Aircraft Mechanic, Retail Manager, CPA, Self Employed Entrepreneurs, Small Business Owners, Consultants, etc.

Typical civilian careers held by folks in 11th Group during the Cold War & Gulf War 1984-1991. I personally saw similar occupations represented across 19th Group from 2001 through 2006.

Is it difficult to juggle two careers? Damn straight. But the kind of folks that make it in SF are the kind of folks who can figure out how to skin that cat.

Last edited by Astronomy; 10-26-2016 at 15:24.
Astronomy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 13:49   #7
Peregrino
Quiet Professional
 
Peregrino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santi View Post
This makes sense, however, it implies that NG SF soldiers don't have successful civilian careers while serving on a team. Recruiting for NG SF suggests otherwise, so is this then an issue of theory vs. practice? Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
There's a reason Recruiters are stereotyped as bearing a strong resemblance to used car salesmen. (Yes - I find stereotypes useful. They wouldn't exist if there wasn't an element of truth in them.) Case in point - the current "crisis in ethics" that has resulted in the California "bonus" recoupment debacle. Caveat emptor.

Edited to add - Over the past 15 years, many NG SF Soldiers have contributed to the overall SF mission at levels far beyond what the Guard is designed for. Many of those who had careers have paid a heavy price. I personally don't expect the OPTEMPO to change.
__________________
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.

~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
Peregrino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 16:01   #8
Joker
Quiet Professional
 
Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrino View Post
... I personally don't expect the OPTEMPO to change.
I do, I see it getting worse.
Joker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 16:30   #9
Santi
Asset
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronomy View Post
Of course it is. It's the raison d'ętre for the organization. Part Time. You're confusing recent combat deployments/OPTEMPO with the normal majority non-deployed time of any Reserve/Guard unit across a 20 or 30 year career. Naturally, when you deploy, the civilian career gets put on hold, as provided for by law and good personal planning. If you're gone to war for a year, your previous life is far, far away. You focus on the deployment and your team. But you eventually go back to that other life. Thousands of Army National Guard SF have done exactly that over the years. Some decide to volunteer for additional singleton / augmentation assignments downrange. Some cross over to Active Duty. Some do contracting gigs between unit mobilizations for wartime deployment. But most have a paid career outside of the Army... and SF.



Yes, you have. By definition, SF Guard are not full time Soldiers except when activated for State Duty, attending schools, gone for training deployments, assigned to AGR billets, or while Federalized (e.g., for combat rotations). All carefully scheduled to meet laws limiting their duration of employment.

I served in SF for 32 years. 7 of those in the Reserve (11th). I was also an Active Duty advisor to a 19th Guard SF battalion for 4 years (and went to war with them).

People have other jobs. The force tends to attract a heavy representation of law enforcement careers. This at everything from local to state to federal level. But many other livelihoods are represented.

Across the seven years I was assigned, my Reserve ODA always had several cops. Sheriff's Deputy, Big City Police Detective, ATF Agent, & Small Town Police Chief. But we also had a Sports Physiologist/High School Teacher, several Full Time College Students, Auto Repair Center Owner, Pharmaceutical Salesman, Real Estate Company Executive VP, Civil Engineer with a major construction corporation, and a few others.

In that company, other team guys filled a variety of civilian occupations: Trauma Surgeon, Attorney, Financial Advisor, Stock Broker, College English Professor, Residential Building Contractor, State Trooper, FBI Agent, Banker, LPN, P.A., Town Mayor, Corporate Petroleum Geologist, FAA Commercial Aircraft Mechanic, Retail Manager, CPA, Self Employed Entrepreneurs, Small Business Owners, Consultants, etc.

Typical civilian careers held by folks in 11th Group during the Cold War & Gulf War 1984-1991. I personally saw similar occupations represented across 19th Group from 2001 through 2006.

Is it difficult to juggle two careers? Damn straight. But the kind of folks that make it in SF are the kind of folks who can figure out how to skin that cat.
Sir, Thank you for your comments. Thats some serious multi-tasking you describe there.
Santi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 16:31   #10
Santi
Asset
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrino View Post
There's a reason Recruiters are stereotyped as bearing a strong resemblance to used car salesmen.
LOL, and they get many of us
Santi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2016, 23:32   #11
Mike
Quiet Professional
 
Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 194
I walked into the recruiting office in 1966.
Guy grinned and began rubbing his paws together in anticipation.
Fat leg E5 with a Europea svc badge or somekind.

I said "I want Airborne Infantry." Fucker all but slid out of his chair.
I got both, then SF.
In those days, NGs were considered draft dodgers by many of us.
Included SF NGs.
We had them with us in SFTG and they were the sorriest people alive.
Went home tomomma on the weekends and some even mocked us RAs.
Called us cannon fodder.
One guy I knew activated himself and went to VN and served as a SOG 10.
Things changed in the 90s and 2000s. A lot of them did their part and more.
__________________
Mike
Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 17:49.



Copyright 2004-2022 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies