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Old 03-11-2012, 09:12   #1
Mills
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Afghan civilians killed...........

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/11/world/...html?hpt=wo_c2

Here we go again, hang on tight because this ride is about to get bumpy............

Wonder how this transpired?

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Old 03-11-2012, 09:37   #2
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Sure would hate to be in his COC!!

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Old 03-11-2012, 10:57   #3
grigori
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I am also a member of a civilian owned military discussion forum,the muslim country members there have these opinion's:

1)When an Afghan kills an American Soldier:The American deserved it more to come.

2)When an American soldier kills/pisses/beats an Afghan:Americans are monsters torturing the Afghans they should leave soon.


What do I think of this incident?

American soldiers are having a hard time in Afghanistan psychologically and now with all these killing of ISAF,American troops by Afghan Army soldiers,civilians will make them angry no doubt about that.It is in the discipline in the US Military that they remain quiet about it,bottle their anger and keep doing the job they are sent to do in A'stan but not everyone will hold on long some soldier will lose it and do something like this.

What worries is me what will happen to this soldier in 2009 3 Navy SEALs were almost subject to a court martial when they caught a terrorist guilty of killing American contractors one of whom was a former SEAL ,accused them of punching him.Here civilians have been killed it is scary to think what action will be taken against him.

I feel for every soldier out there fighting in a place thousands of miles away where the citizens of that country don't want him,they don't know what tyrants they have received liberation from due to the acts of these soldiers.

Afghanistan is a screwed up place.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:04   #4
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What's even more damning is all the "news" reports out there. Everyone is reporting on it...very few have accurate reports.

This one is so far out there in left field that it's not even funny.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1337406.html

Huffpost is causing much more harm than good.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:06   #5
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Originally Posted by grigori View Post
I feel for every soldier out there fighting in a place thousands of miles away where the citizens of that country don't want him,they don't know what tyrants they have received liberation from due to the acts of these soldiers.
Well said.

Those of you out there right now, thanks for your willingness to do those things that may seem futile, for my benefit while I sit in comfort today. Prayers that your missions are completed successfully and you return home safe to your families.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:23   #6
grigori
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This is the link to the forum I was talking about,it is a direct link to the afghan topic.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-a...-kandahar.html


Mods,

If this post is not required here please take the appropriate action.
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Old 03-11-2012, 12:02   #7
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I'm concerned that in every news report I've read on this incident and the Afghan soldiers' "retaliation" for the quran burning, the American military has been blamed for the incident occurring in the first place. This one may have been correct in that stance; unwarranted killing of unarmed civilians is a war crime, and if that is what happened, this guy deserves to be punished. However, it bothers me that American news outlets are unwilling to give American soldiers the benefit of doubt, and assume them innocent until proven guilty. Any taliban reading yahoo news could just pack up and go home for the day; his job has already been done for him in convincing people we are evil oppressors out to destroy Afghanistan.
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Old 03-11-2012, 14:04   #8
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GEN John R. Allen, ISAF Cdr, released the following statement:

Quote:
"I was shocked and saddened to hear of the shooting incident today in Kandahar Province. I offer my profound regret and deepest condolences to the victims and their families. I pledge to all the noble people of Afghanistan my commitment to a rapid and thorough investigation.

In the meantime, we will continue to offer medical care for those who were injured in this shooting. We will maintain custody of the U.S. service member alleged to have perpetrated this attack. And we will cooperate fully with local Afghan authorities as we ascertain all the facts.

This deeply appalling incident in no way represents the values of ISAF and coalition troops or the abiding respect we feel for the Afghan people. Nor does it impugn or diminish the spirit of cooperation and partnership we have worked so hard to foster with the Afghan National Security Forces.

The men and women of ISAF join me in my sadness and they join me in extending their condolences.

I am absolutely dedicated to making sure that anyone who is found to have committed wrong-doing is held fully accountable."

http://www.isaf.nato.int/article/isa...-kandahar.html
Here are a couple of interesting OpEd pieces from an Afghani newspaper which pretty much sums up a number of issues over there:

http://outlookafghanistan.net/topics.php?post_id=3545

http://outlookafghanistan.net/topics.php?post_id=3490

http://outlookafghanistan.net/topics.php?post_id=3434

Our efforts in A'stan have been like trying to drag your mother-in-law up a giant sand dune - you take three steps forward and backslide two steps...while the kvetching never ceases no matter what you do or how hard you try.

And so it goes...

Richard
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Old 03-11-2012, 16:20   #9
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Ok, I'm a bit pissed off already about this coverage of the U.S. soldier who went off the deep end and went on a shooting rampage against Afghanie civilians. It's almost as if the liberal press wants to paint a picture that we're all (soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines) blood thirsty warmongers, just one hair's breadth away from snapping (or just stepping out for a liesurely strole)and going on a killing spree at the first opportunity. They are sensationalizing this thing already. Flippin media needs a muzzle put on it, and needs to be reminded that it ought to spend more time delivering more of the good news that does quite often take place in our world. Yes, this atrocious act does play a major role in the ongoing sociopolitical chess game we're quagmired in with Afghanistan's government and people, and I understand that it will affect our overall relationship with the A'ghanie people, but, damn, how about some news on the schools and water plants being rebuilt and fully stocked with necessary supplies, hospitals and medical clinics being fully funded and manned by contractors and military personnel, and the training we're giving the A'ghanie people to run these places on their own once we're gone.
Same crap, different sandbox.
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Old 03-11-2012, 16:43   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofmed View Post
It's almost as if the liberal press wants to paint a picture that we're all (soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines) blood thirsty warmongers, just one hair's breadth away from snapping (or just stepping out for a liesurely strole)and going on a killing spree at the first opportunity.
Trip-Wire Vet Syndrome ala Dan Rather.

If you want morbid vet stuff, you should read some of the post-WW1 news articles.

OTOH, we see a lot more positive than negative vet reporting in the news around here.

And so it goes...

Richard
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Old 03-11-2012, 17:27   #11
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Stupid

I just got home from work to read more about what we were hearing all day on post, it sucks that this incident is going to be associated to our mission of VSO. They are saying that he was one of the conventional troops attached for support of VSO. I feel sorry for the team that is going to be associated with this incident.
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Old 03-11-2012, 17:29   #12
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Originally Posted by panama jack View Post
Yep, fox news, msnbc, cbs msnbc, abc, pbs, they are all pretty much OFFC, with the way they spin the news depending on which Party they are aligned with. I'm sick and discussted with the whole lot. It's a miracle that anyone can figured out real from memorex anymore.
Can you name an incident in which the news was "spun" by Fox News?
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Old 03-11-2012, 21:55   #13
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delete

Last edited by Dad; 03-12-2012 at 06:19.
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Old 03-11-2012, 22:04   #14
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Don't worry, the Spin Doctor in Chief will bend the collective nation over with a sign that says: insert here for an apology.

That said, I am not condoning what this soldier did in any way; we need to get out of there, and fast...
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:23   #15
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Media bias 101 - it's all biased. It would be interesting to see a follow-up study done today.

Richard


Quote:
Media Bias Is Real, Finds UCLA Political Scientist
UCLA, Dec 2005

While the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal is conservative, the newspaper's news pages are liberal, even more liberal than The New York Times. The Drudge Report may have a right-wing reputation, but it leans left. Coverage by public television and radio is conservative compared to the rest of the mainstream media. Meanwhile, almost all major media outlets tilt to the left.

These are just a few of the surprising findings from a UCLA-led study, which is believed to be the first successful attempt at objectively quantifying bias in a range of media outlets and ranking them accordingly.

"I suspected that many media outlets would tilt to the left because surveys have shown that reporters tend to vote more Democrat than Republican," said Tim Groseclose, a UCLA political scientist and the study's lead author. "But I was surprised at just how pronounced the distinctions are."

"Overall, the major media outlets are quite moderate compared to members of Congress, but even so, there is a quantifiable and significant bias in that nearly all of them lean to the left," said co‑author Jeffrey Milyo, University of Missouri economist and public policy scholar.

The results appear in the latest issue of the Quarterly Journal of Economics, which will become available in mid-December.

Groseclose and Milyo based their research on a standard gauge of a lawmaker's support for liberal causes. Americans for Democratic Action (ADA) tracks the percentage of times that each lawmaker votes on the liberal side of an issue. Based on these votes, the ADA assigns a numerical score to each lawmaker, where "100" is the most liberal and "0" is the most conservative. After adjustments to compensate for disproportionate representation that the Senate gives to low‑population states and the lack of representation for the District of Columbia, the average ADA score in Congress (50.1) was assumed to represent the political position of the average U.S. voter.

Groseclose and Milyo then directed 21 research assistants — most of them college students — to scour U.S. media coverage of the past 10 years. They tallied the number of times each media outlet referred to think tanks and policy groups, such as the left-leaning NAACP or the right-leaning Heritage Foundation.

Next, they did the same exercise with speeches of U.S. lawmakers. If a media outlet displayed a citation pattern similar to that of a lawmaker, then Groseclose and Milyo's method assigned both a similar ADA score.

"A media person would have never done this study," said Groseclose, a UCLA political science professor, whose research and teaching focuses on the U.S. Congress. "It takes a Congress scholar even to think of using ADA scores as a measure. And I don't think many media scholars would have considered comparing news stories to congressional speeches."

Of the 20 major media outlets studied, 18 scored left of center, with CBS' "Evening News," The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times ranking second, third and fourth most liberal behind the news pages of The Wall Street Journal.

Only Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington Times scored right of the average U.S. voter.

The most centrist outlet proved to be the "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer." CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown" and ABC's "Good Morning America" were a close second and third.

"Our estimates for these outlets, we feel, give particular credibility to our efforts, as three of the four moderators for the 2004 presidential and vice-presidential debates came from these three news outlets — Jim Lehrer, Charlie Gibson and Gwen Ifill," Groseclose said. "If these newscasters weren't centrist, staffers for one of the campaign teams would have objected and insisted on other moderators."

The fourth most centrist outlet was "Special Report With Brit Hume" on Fox News, which often is cited by liberals as an egregious example of a right-wing outlet. While this news program proved to be right of center, the study found ABC's "World News Tonight" and NBC's "Nightly News" to be left of center. All three outlets were approximately equidistant from the center, the report found.

"If viewers spent an equal amount of time watching Fox's 'Special Report' as ABC's 'World News' and NBC's 'Nightly News,' then they would receive a nearly perfectly balanced version of the news," said Milyo, an associate professor of economics and public affairs at the University of Missouri at Columbia.

Five news outlets — "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer," ABC's "Good Morning America," CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown," Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and the Drudge Report — were in a statistical dead heat in the race for the most centrist news outlet. Of the print media, USA Today was the most centrist.

An additional feature of the study shows how each outlet compares in political orientation with actual lawmakers. The news pages of The Wall Street Journal scored a little to the left of the average American Democrat, as determined by the average ADA score of all Democrats in Congress (85 versus 84). With scores in the mid-70s, CBS' "Evening News" and The New York Times looked similar to Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., who has an ADA score of 74.

Most of the outlets were less liberal than Lieberman but more liberal than former Sen. John Breaux, D-La. Those media outlets included the Drudge Report, ABC's "World News Tonight," NBC's "Nightly News," USA Today, NBC's "Today Show," Time magazine, U.S. News & World Report, Newsweek, NPR's "Morning Edition," CBS' "Early Show" and The Washington Post.

Since Groseclose and Milyo were more concerned with bias in news reporting than opinion pieces, which are designed to stake a political position, they omitted editorials and Op‑Eds from their tallies. This is one reason their study finds The Wall Street Journal more liberal than conventional wisdom asserts.

Another finding that contradicted conventional wisdom was that the Drudge Report was slightly left of center.

"One thing people should keep in mind is that our data for the Drudge Report was based almost entirely on the articles that the Drudge Report lists on other Web sites," said Groseclose. "Very little was based on the stories that Matt Drudge himself wrote. The fact that the Drudge Report appears left of center is merely a reflection of the overall bias of the media."

Yet another finding that contradicted conventional wisdom relates to National Public Radio, often cited by conservatives as an egregious example of a liberal news outlet. But according to the UCLA-University of Missouri study, it ranked eighth most liberal of the 20 that the study examined.

"By our estimate, NPR hardly differs from the average mainstream news outlet," Groseclose said. "Its score is approximately equal to those of Time, Newsweek and U.S. News & World Report and its score is slightly more conservative than The Washington Post's. If anything, government‑funded outlets in our sample have a slightly lower average ADA score (61), than the private outlets in our sample (62.8)."

The researchers took numerous steps to safeguard against bias — or the appearance of same — in the work, which took close to three years to complete. They went to great lengths to ensure that as many research assistants supported Democratic candidate Al Gore in the 2000 election as supported President George Bush. They also sought no outside funding, a rarity in scholarly research.

"No matter the results, we feared our findings would've been suspect if we'd received support from any group that could be perceived as right- or left-leaning, so we consciously decided to fund this project only with our own salaries and research funds that our own universities provided," Groseclose said.

The results break new ground.

"Past researchers have been able to say whether an outlet is conservative or liberal, but no one has ever compared media outlets to lawmakers," Groseclose said. "Our work gives a precise characterization of the bias and relates it to known commodity — politicians."

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla...UCLA-6664.aspx
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“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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