Old 05-14-2011, 11:08   #16
mugwump
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Good summary of the risk from an electrical infrastructure security summit here.
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:31   #17
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Let me preface this by saying that I am in no way claiming to be an EMP expert.

OTOH, I have read quite a bit about it, and there are ample references available to the public.

While Bill did not ask how to build a watch, allow me to elaborate.

There are essentially three non-nuclear effects of the EMP, sort of like a combination of punches, as it were.

This is a better technical explanation than I can provide.

Quote:
FIRST EMP COMPONENT (E1)

The first component is a free-field energy pulse with a rise-time measured in the range of a fraction of a billionth to a few billionths of a second. It is the “electromagnetic shock” that disrupts or damages electronics-based control systems, sensors, communication systems, protective systems, computers, and similar devices. Its damage or functional disruption occurs essentially simultaneously over a very large area.

SECOND EMP COMPONENT (E2)

The middle-time component covers roughly the same geographic area as the first component and is similar to lightning in its time-dependence, but is far more geographically widespread in its character and somewhat lower in amplitude. In general, it would not be an issue for critical infrastructure systems since they have existing protective measures for defense against occasional lightning strikes. The most significant risk is synergistic, because the E2 component follows a small fraction of a second after the first component’s insult, which has the ability to impair or destroy many protective and control features. The energy associated with the second component thus may be allowed to pass into and damage systems.

THIRD EMP COMPONENT (E3)

The final major component of EMP is a subsequent, slower-rising, longer-duration pulse that creates disruptive currents in long electricity transmission lines, resulting in damage to electrical supply and distribution systems connected to such lines (Figure 3). The sequence of E1, E2, and then E3 components of EMP is important because each can cause damage, and the later damage can be increased as a result of the earlier damage. In the example depicted in Figures 2 and 3, about 70% of the total electrical power load of the United States is within the region exposed to the EMP event.
You are not going to beat all of these effects with surge protectors or lightning arrestors.

The electrical grid in the affected area is going to die and will be many months before being restored, if ever.

Any device with significant electronics which is plugged in will be terminally fried, and will be unrecoverable without replacement of the electronics.

Any electronics which are not protected, hardened, or pre-transistor are going to be irreparably damaged and will not be repaired without protected replacement parts.

That would include all wireless and cordless comms, TVs, radios, computers, industrial controls, electrical generation and distribution, etc.

Also, all cars, trucks, trains, etc. built since 1980 or so will be dead. Your car runs off a computer and electronic controls now. All cars are fuel injected and have been for more than a decade. You will need repair parts, and those in parts stores, wrecking yards, etc., are not protected either.

This means a near total disruption in the affected area of electric power; petroleum and natural gas refinement and distribution; telecommunications; banking; water and sewer systems; medical care; air, water, and ground transportation systems; and food distribution.

The burned out systems will have to be replaced, and in many cases, the key components are custom made with a lead and build time of many months. Furthermore, the industry is set up to build a few per month, not the thousands that will need to be replaced. Then you have to move them around and install them in a country with a seriously degraded infrastructure and potential lawlessness. That would be a significant challenge.

If this were to happen, and most nuclear capable countries have the ability to do so, that which is not protected/hardened or in your possession with sufficient fuel and repair parts is all you are going to have to live on for a year or more. I do not think the government is going to be in any position to help most Americans. Neighbors will have to bond together.

Frankly, I expect the lawlessness and misconduct of large groups of the underclass to do as much or more damasge than the initial EMP. They will overwhelm law enforcement and commence rioting, burning, looting, etc. within 72 hours of the event. Since the narcotic supply will quickly be exhausted, followed by the alcohol stocks, eventually followed by the commercially available food supply, every city will quickly look like Katrina, and then go downhill from there.

Those in rural areas will fare better than those in suburban areas, and they better than those in urban areas.

The problem with relief efforts will be that the system is designed to send help from non-affected areas to the affected ones. When a sufficient percentage of the areas are affected, there is little or no one to send help from.

This potential tragedy could be averted and the major components of our lives protected by about a 5% additional cost, with component hardening mandated by Federal law, but they are not.

Sorry for the diversion, I now return you to the discussion of how to construct an EMP protective box. I can think of a lot of things that would be more useful to me after an EMP apocalypse than a laptop, but that was the original question. It might be worthwhile to take an old one that is being replaced, wrap it in plastic and cover that with aluminum foil and or screen wire before putting it in a grounded ammo can, but you would still have to take it out every few months to recharge it.

Hope that helps someone.

TR
Attached Files
File Type: pdf EMP_exec_rpt.pdf (577.6 KB, 29 views)
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:13   #18
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Those in rural areas will fare better than those in suburban areas, and they better than those in urban areas.
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Old 05-14-2011, 17:01   #19
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I keep a certain amount of radios for my guys in microwave ovens that have been thrown out recently. They just stack in my garage.

Not sure how big a laptop you are talking about but you can find these for free and they are already shielded.

I have never tested this but someone I trust believes in this and I will give him the benefit of the doubt until I can find the time to be super geek. But it stands to reason that they are designed to shield electro-magnetic radiation.

If anyone can point out why this would totally not work, I am all ears and will go in another direction.
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Old 05-14-2011, 21:40   #20
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good info, Thanks all!

oh yeah, EMP is what I meant.
OK, met today with my friend who asked me the question.
You all can tell me if I used the wrong term or not.

This is his base concern, a coronal mass ejection or CME which involves electromagnetic radiation. So I figured this might like an EMP and thus asked the question because I didn't yet know what a CME was.

Any commo guys tracking the predicted upcoming sun cycles?
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Old 05-14-2011, 23:21   #21
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Question after my cursory search didn't come up with much...

Does anyone know of an EMP proof box that a laptop would fit in?

I'm asking on behalf of friend who is a radio station manager.
LOL, Now that I know you're talking about a CME vice EMP the last thing your friend needs to worry about is his laptop.
A CME with the intensity to knock out an unprotected laptop will also bring down the power grid, transportation systems, the internet, etc etc etc.

The up side, predicting solar flares is like predicting hurricanes, we don't possess the technology to do it yet. The down side is it's like the earthquake that just hit Japan, if and when we do get hit with a CME with intensity it's going to be real bad. Nothing electronic will work, nothing.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:24   #22
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Team Sergeant,
I had thought that a Coronal Mass Ejection produced among several things a natural form of Electro-Magnetic Pulse which can vary in degree.
Am I wrong?
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:54   #23
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LOL, Now that I know you're talking about a CME vice EMP the last thing your friend needs to worry about is his laptop.
A CME with the intensity to knock out an unprotected laptop will also bring down the power grid, transportation systems, the internet, etc etc etc.

The up side, predicting solar flares is like predicting hurricanes, we don't possess the technology to do it yet. The down side is it's like the earthquake that just hit Japan, if and when we do get hit with a CME with intensity it's going to be real bad. Nothing electronic will work, nothing.
When I awoke the morning of Jan. 1, 2000 I noticed my wood burning stove in the blacksmith shop still worked. Oh, and the oil lamp worked also. And the cow still gave milk, and the chickens were walking around, and the dog was asleep on the porch, and....
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:28   #24
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Bill - Your friend needs to take into account that a CME has a significantly longer duration at much higher energy levels than an EMP. There is some literature out there describing the differences (can't access it right now, Google should do the trick though). IIRC the last really severe CME was in the 1850's. What was essentially a non-event then, would cripple anyone affected today. Bottom line - your friend has cause to be concerned. Not sure how useful it'll be to have the only workable laptop on the continent though.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:48   #25
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and....
My computers and all our air craft and the power plants......Did Y2K knock out anything but huge amounts of cash form IT budgets??
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Old 05-16-2011, 16:37   #26
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Team Sergeant,
I had thought that a Coronal Mass Ejection produced among several things a natural form of Electro-Magnetic Pulse which can vary in degree.
Am I wrong?
This already happened 144 years ago and it did knock out all telegraph lines in the United States and Europe. (see below) If it occured today it will shut down the entire power grid for months maybe a year. When it hits it will overload "every" power cable and "fry" every transformer currently hooked to the power grid. How long do you think it will take to replace every transformer in the United States?

Tell your friend he will not need his laptop if this happens, he will need a gun and ammo. There will be maybe 24-72 hours of warning before we are hit, maybe. Speed of light travelling 93 million miles and that's if we're "watching".




http://science.nasa.gov/science-news...ct_superstorm/

In scientific circles where solar flares, magnetic storms and other unique solar events are discussed, the occurrences of September 1-2, 1859, are the star stuff of legend. Even 144 years ago, many of Earth's inhabitants realized something momentous had just occurred. Within hours, telegraph wires in both the United States and Europe spontaneously shorted out, causing numerous fires, while the Northern Lights, solar-induced phenomena more closely associated with regions near Earth's North Pole, were documented as far south as Rome, Havana and Hawaii, with similar effects at the South Pole.

What happened in 1859 was a combination of several events that occurred on the Sun at the same time. If they took place separately they would be somewhat notable events. But together they caused the most potent disruption of Earth's ionosphere in recorded history. "What they generated was the perfect space storm," says Bruce Tsurutani, a plasma physicist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory
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Old 05-16-2011, 16:41   #27
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Bill - Your friend needs to take into account that a CME has a significantly longer duration at much higher energy levels than an EMP. There is some literature out there describing the differences (can't access it right now, Google should do the trick though). IIRC the last really severe CME was in the 1850's. What was essentially a non-event then, would cripple anyone affected today. Bottom line - your friend has cause to be concerned. Not sure how useful it'll be to have the only workable laptop on the continent though.
Only because we didn't yet "depend" on electricity .....
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Old 05-16-2011, 17:19   #28
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Only because we didn't yet "depend" on electricity .....
And none of that micro amp, milliwatt, nanometer, 1.35v. chip and transistor gear existed.

The old vacuum tube stuff might survive, it is much harder to protect equipment that a static electic carpet shock will literally kill.

TR
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Old 05-16-2011, 18:14   #29
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OK, but you're totally protected if you wrap some tin foil around your head, right?
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Old 05-16-2011, 18:26   #30
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OK, but you're totally protected if you wrap some tin foil around your head, right?
Only so long as there aren't any gaps. Otherwise it acts like a capacitor - the charge infiltrates through the hole and builds up inside until your head explodes like an egg in the microwave.
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