Chinese General Threatens To Use Nukes

[Books]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

If people don't like the wages at Wal-Mart, they don't have to work there. I am surprised to see so many commies on this board.

With due respect RL, I don't think it has anything to do with communism. Walmart's business tactics are well known. The Corp. moves into small community, runs the local butcher, baker, candlestick maker out of business and replaces those jobs with lower wage ones. As for folks walking away from low wage jobs. . . often they don't have much choice - they're the only jobs in town. A hell of an incentive, IMO, to get an education.

Economic environments function much like biological ones do: the greater the diversity of species, the stronger and more resistent the environment is to disease and attack. Walmart is the economic equivalent of scotchbroom, a plant that sucks the nutrients from the soil, displaces native species and puts little back into the turf.

We need more companies, not bigger ones. Heads up too, Filson, the hunting/fishing/ranching outfitter is about to start making some products overseas. A sad day for American companies.

Books

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

Cement prices are through the roof here because of China, steel goes without saying...how do you build military stuff without steel?
You also can't make steel without certain fuels. So much of the worlds mineral resources are being directed to China that I think this is also a tactical concern.

You don't build good gun barrels without certain alloys, many of which do not exist here in the United States and we are having a tough time getting them because these same alloys are going to China.
This is where I live, so to speak. My information on steels comes directly from the captains of the industry.

Bill:

I don't fully buy that.

It is a capitalist marketplace.

You want my Vanadium, offer more for it. You want all of the cement I can produce, pay me more money.

While it is inflationary and may cause spot shortages, the reason someone doesn't have something usually is that they are not willing (or able) to pay more for it.

TR

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Books

With due respect RL, I don't think it has anything to do with communism. Walmart's business tactics are well known. The Corp. moves into small community, runs the local butcher, baker, candlestick maker out of business and replaces those jobs with lower wage ones. As for folks walking away from low wage jobs. . . often they don't have much choice - they're the only jobs in town. A hell of an incentive, IMO, to get an education.

Economic environments function much like biological ones do: the greater the diversity of species, the stronger and more resistent the environment is to disease and attack. Walmart is the economic equivalent of scotchbroom, a plant that sucks the nutrients from the soil, displaces native species and puts little back into the turf.

We need more companies, not bigger ones. Heads up too, Filson, the hunting/fishing/ranching outfitter is about to start making some products overseas. A sad day for American companies.

Books

Books:

Last time I checked, the cashiers at the Mom and Pop butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers made minimum wage there too, unless they were the owners or the family of the owners. Have you seen a lot of people getting rich working the 7/11 counter?

TR

[Sigi]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

It is a capitalist marketplace.

I always felt that way, but China is not playing by the same rules as the rest of the marketplace, and they are making up economic rules that are good for them and bad for the rest.

I am all for a capitalistic society, but it should be a two-way street. They buy everyone elses resources but we cannot buy theirs?

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Sigi

I always felt that way, but China is not playing by the same rules as the rest of the marketplace, and they are making up economic rules that are good for them and bad for the rest.

I am all for a capitalistic society, but it should be a two-way street. They buy everyone elses resources but we cannot buy theirs?

Get $700 Billion together and tell me what you cannot buy from them.

TR

[aricbcool]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Books:

Last time I checked, the cashiers at the Mom and Pop butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers made minimum wage there too, unless they were the owners or the family of the owners. Have you seen a lot of people getting rich working the 7/11 counter?

TR

Exactly.

To add to that: Where I am, Wal-Mart starts workers above minimum wage. Compared to Target, Shopko and K-Mart, Wal-Mart is quite generous.

And, they have greeters (usually seniors or handicapped that likely wouldn't find work elsewhere). I have yet to see a greeter in any of the other stores.

Also, not to hijack, but:

http://www.forbes.com/finance/feeds/...fx2141431.html
US calls Chinese general's nuclear threat 'irresponsible'

WASHINGTON (AFX) - The US shrugged off as 'irresponsible' a reported threat by a Chinese general to use nuclear weapons if attacked by the US in a conflict over Taiwan.

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack called the remarks attributed to General Zhu Chenghu 'unfortunate' and said he hoped they did not reflect the views of the Chinese government.

'I haven't seen all the remarks but what I've seen of them, I'll say that they're irresponsible,' McCormack told reporters.

The Financial Times and the Asian Wall Street Journal on Friday quoted Zhu, a professor at China's National Defence University, as issuing the threat at a briefing organised by a private Hong Kong organisation.

[Books]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Books:

Last time I checked, the cashiers at the Mom and Pop butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers made minimum wage there too, unless they were the owners or the family of the owners. Have you seen a lot of people getting rich working the 7/11 counter?

TR

Fair enough TR, you're keeping me honest. Cashiers make what cashiers make (unless they're lucky enough to have a union gig). Then they make a living wage.

But the presence of the mom & pop shops shows a greater diversity in the "econosphere." Hopefully I won't be stoned to death for my birkenstock metaphor. More mom and pops means a larger share of the society are owners, rather than proles. People don't get rich from working at 7/11. They get rich from owning a 7/11.

So yeah, I'm pro-labor (it got us the weekend; can't be that bad) AND pro business. What I'm against are hegemonic corporations squishing the little guy. If Costco can manage to pay their employees a decent wage and be a good neigbhor in their communities while still being a publicly traded company, why can't Walmart?

[aricbcool]

Originally Posted by Books

If Costco can manage to pay their employees a decent wage and be a good neigbhor in their communities while still being a publicly traded company, why can't Walmart?

They could, if they wanted to charge all of their customers a $60 annual membership fee.

TR,

I believe you might be right in some aspects. However, I think their "resolve" would be much stronger than ours. We want things "now" and as fast as possible. They on the other hand, have been subjected to poverty and living virtually on nothing for so long, I would think that the whole situation would be just another trial for them. Also, remember on top of being blinded by Communism doctrine their faith would be in themselves and in their leaders. Ours hopefully would lie in the Church and the government, and each other as well. When the goods start getting really thin, especially in the stores, people in this country will more than likely panic which would lead to "panic" buying. Food would not be a problem unless parts weren't available to fix the machines that harvest and/or transport. It would be IMO, a back to the basics not unlike the days we had seen here during WWII. This until the "storm" passes.

Drastic measures would probably be in the form of UN sanctions against China itself and we all know what that means. This would however, be an opportune time to find out who really are our friends and who isn't (like we didn't know this one ahead of time). I imagine negoitiations about Taiwan would be thrown in for good measure. Let me digress a little; The situation with Taiwan would be the cause of this. With George in the white house, he will not sit on his hands wondering what to do next. His answer would be "NO" to China having Taiwan (by the way, they are one of the largest Chrisitan countrys in the world). What's next would be anybodys guess. Maybe a "Cuban Missle Crisis" standoff.

[Bill Harsey]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Bill:

I don't fully buy that.

It is a capitalist marketplace.

You want my Vanadium, offer more for it. You want all of the cement I can produce, pay me more money.

While it is inflationary and may cause spot shortages, the reason someone doesn't have something usually is that they are not willing (or able) to pay more for it.

TR

If you buy all of it first and there is no more left, there is no need to worry about the competition.
If you have to pay a living wage to your employees, then you will always have some, if not great, difficulty competing.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

If you buy all of it first and there is no more left, there is no need to worry about the competition.
If you have to pay a living wage to your employees, then you will always have some, if not great, difficulty competing.

Bill:

This strikes me like the argument that we will run out of oil.

We will never run out. It will just get so expensive to produce that the alternatives will be preferred.

How do you acquire every bit of a substance which occurs on the Earth naturally? If the price is high enough, there is an incentive to explore, and more will be discovered or old, less profitable mines will be opened back up. Happens with precious metals all of the time. There is an aluminum smelter near here that is only efficient to operate if the market price for aluminum is $100 per ton or so, IIRC. Goes to $90, they mothball it. Goes up to $110, they bring it back online.

Even DeBeers cannot keep complete control of the diamond market. Some still get out of their network. You can buy diamonds all day long, if you are willing to pay their price.

Not arguing the wage issue, though I do know some people who could probably live just fine with a .22, a knife, a flint, and a wad of 550 cord.

As the Chinese people get more news from outside, more affluent, bigger consumers, etc., it will get harder to keep them down as well.

Look at what happened to Japan.

TR

[vsvo]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

What would it do to them to lose all of that money, and either have half of their population unemployed, or every warehouse in the country full?
.....

I think that sword cuts them more than us.

TR

I agree. One of the reasons China is resistant to revaluing the yuan is to keep their export machine humming to provide jobs for the masses flooding the cities from the villages. The regime does not want to deal with angry, unemployed peasants.

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

As the Chinese people get more news from outside, more affluent, bigger consumers, etc., it will get harder to keep them down as well.

Look at what happened to Japan.

TR

Excellent observation! This is one topic I pay close attention to everyday and I have missed this potential analysis. Maybe it's because I have strong bias towards the Chinese hard (sometime insane) work ethics. Go to any major uni in the US and see how many long hours/how hard the Chinese grad students work while being compensated at a payrate that will cause Joe frat boy to cuss every 5 min.

The consumerism in Tokyo probably beat Manhattan. Back in the academic days, several alumni came to intro class to show what they did then. They worked for a major cosmetic company devising the latest gadget to apply smooth and even base make up. It's ridiculously pricey and guess where they tested it first for marketability? Tokyo....and it was sold out in two weeks.
I agree that at some point the folks in China may reach that same level. But how long and and what will become of the US by then?

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

Cement prices are through the roof here because of China, steel goes without saying...

...this sounds familiar from a brief conversation during BLADE show

[Bill Harsey]

If all the perceived problems with China get worse, just pipe in MTV.

Then we'll have to get back to work making all our own stuff again.

[Ambush Master]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

Who controls the resources controls the world.
Anyone noticing how a lot of that is headed towards China?

Cement prices are through the roof here because of China, steel goes without saying...how do you build military stuff without steel?
You also can't make steel without certain fuels. So much of the worlds mineral resources are being directed to China that I think this is also a tactical concern.

You don't build good gun barrels without certain alloys, many of which do not exist here in the United States and we are having a tough time getting them because these same alloys are going to China.
This is where I live, so to speak. My information on steels comes directly from the captains of the industry.

Bill, I don't think that the steel is going into their War Machinery !! Not now anyway, because it is going both into the concrete and into the machinery that is needed to prep for the concrete !!

See: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/chi.../three.gorges/