EN branch a good feeder for SF?

[VanZwieten]

Quiet Professionals:

I was looking at an engineer branch brochure because I am very seriously considering branching EN if I can't get IN (with he ultimate goal of SF when it comes time) and the brochure had a section that said something to the effect of "Engineer is a good branch feeder into:" And then it listed some captain jobs. That list included special forces.

Now I'm wondering, did they just include that to make EN look more appealing, or is there an actual specific reason EN would be a good SF feeder? I understand every A team has an engineer expert, but as a SF officer is there anything that makes EN a good feeder?

Thought I'd ask the professionals.

v/r
Victor Zulu

[Dusty]

What other captain's jobs were on the list in the brochure?

[MR2]

VanZwieten, it is not the training... it is the man.

One of the better Detachment Commanders I knew was branched Signal.

[MtnGoat]

Originally Posted by MR2

VanZwieten, it is not the training... it is the man.

One of the better Detachment Commanders I knew was branched Signal.

BINGO!! It is the man not the Branch of the Officer.

Good luck

[JMART5]

Agree with the others--it's the man not the branch. Here's a little advise from a very experienced NCO. This is an abridged version (the full version is better but longer) of a speech SGM John G. Stepanek gave to a graduating West Point class. It was published in the 1967 Army Digest and several Army Officers Guides titled, "As a Senior NCO Sees It."

What do we expect from you as officers, commanders, leaders? We expect of you unassailable personal integrity and the highest of morals. We expect you to maintain the highest state of personal appearance. We expect you to be fair- to be consistent- to have dignity, but not aloofness to have compassion and understanding- to treat each soldier as an individual, with individual problems.

And we expect you to have courage- the courage of your convictions- the courage to stand up and be counted- to defend your men when they have followed your orders, even when your orders were in error- to assume the blame when you are wrong.

We expect you to stick out your chin and say, "This man is worthy of promotion, and I want him promoted." And we expect you to have even greater courage and say, "This man is not qualified and he will be promoted over my dead body!" Gentlemen, I implore you do not promote a man because he is a nice guy, because he has a wife and five kids, because he has money problems, because he has a bar bill. If he is not capable of performing the duties of his grade, do not do him and us the injustice of advancing him in grade. When he leaves you, or you leave him, he becomes someone else's problem!

Gentlemen, we expect you to have courage in the face of danger.... During your tour, opportunities will arise for you to display personal courage and leadership. Opportunities could arise from which you may emerge as heroes. A hero is an individual who is faced with an undesirable situation and employs whatever means at his disposal to make the situation tenable or to nullify or negate it.

Do not display recklessness and expose yourself and your men to unnecessary risks that will reduce their normal chances of survival. This will only shake their confidence in your judgment.

Now gentlemen, you know what we expect from you. What can you expect from us?... From most of us you can expect loyalty to your position, devotion to our cause, admiration for your honest efforts- courage to match your courage, guts to match your guts- endurance to match your endurance- motivation to match your motivation esprit to match your esprit- a desire for achievement to match your desire for achievement. You can expect a love of God, a love of country, and a love of duty to match your love of God, your love of country, and your love of duty.

We won't mind the heat if you sweat with us. We won't mind the cold if you shiver with us.... And if the mission requires, we will storm the very gates of hell, right behind you!

Gentlemen, you don't accept us: we were here first. We accept you, and when we do, you'll know. We won't beat drums, wave flags, or carry you off the drill field on our shoulders. But, maybe at a company party, we'll raise a canteen cup of beer and say, "Lieutenant, you're O.K." Just like that.

Remember one thing. Very few noncommissioned officers were awarded stripes without showing somebody something, sometime, somewhere. If your platoon sergeant is mediocre, if he is slow to assume responsibility, if he shies away from you, maybe sometime not too long ago someone refused to trust him, someone failed to support his decisions, someone shot him down when he was right. Internal wounds heal slowly; internal scars fade more slowly.

Your orders appointing you as officers in the United States Army appointed you to command. No orders, no letters, no insignia of rank can appoint you as leaders.... Leaders are made, they are not born. Leadership is developed within yourselves.

You do not wear leadership on your sleeves, on your shoulders, on your caps, or on your calling cards. Be you lieutenants or generals, we're the guys you've got to convince and we'll meet you more than halfway.

You are leaders in an Army in which we have served for so many years, and you will help us defend the country we have loved for so many years. I wish you happiness, luck, and success in the exciting and challenging years that lie ahead. May God bless you all!

[TF Kilo]

Quality words every officer should read at commissioning, and every promotion thereafter.

Also bears reading in general by many, and I thank you for sharing it!

[Dozer523]

Having a DEGREE in Engineering would probably help.

[VanZwieten]

Originally Posted by Dozer523

Having a DEGREE in Engineering would probably help.

Almost there.

[BooneGA]

How far along are you in college? Are you ROTC or considering OCS? If you have any specfic questions about the ROTC branching process I can help answer them along with any more specific branch related questions. Shoot me a PM if you would like.

-Rick

[Richard]

Yep...it's one of those branch immaterial kinda things...

Richard

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by VanZwieten

Almost there.

well then this should practically be a "no-brain-er" even for ah enjunear. (couldn't used spel it now you practically am one). I suspect that if you are a scholarship Cadet Mama Army is already So Proud and has big plans for you. (Plus having this skill/branch will assit you at AD/Assignment time). So figure out where Lost-in-the-Woods is and buy extra batteries for your calculator - you goin' for a RIDE Cadet! You can be a Charlie's worst nightmare ... An 18A who knows what P really stands for.
Keep in touch. We're at the Lake of the Ozarks a lot. You wouldn't be the first ENBOLC LT we let drive the jetski.

Et hum... Some of you (you know who you are) no QP? No posting on this thread!

[ZonieDiver]

... branching EN if I can't get IN...

Army ROTC times sure have changed since the late 60's - early 70's when it was difficult to get anything but Infantry!

[VanZwieten]

Dozer:

Thanks for the invite, I think I'll keep that in my back pocket for when it comes time. Hope to see you this summer... as long as you're in a good mood...

And seriously I've got what you wrote on my other topic written down, will take it seriously when I get there.

ZonieDiver:

Yeah, tell me about it. People won't believe me when I tell them how hard the ground pounders are to branch into.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by VanZwieten

Yeah, tell me about it. People won't believe me when I tell them how hard the ground pounders are to branch into.

It's the Army - why would you want anything but Infantry as an initial accessions branch?

As we used to say, "If you ain't Infantry - you're support for the Infantry."

And so it goes...

Richard

[Buffalobob]

Just to continue to take my usual position on the subject, I will say that the experience of a lieutenant as a infantry platoon leader in combat is not something that can be learned in a classroom once you are a Captain and being assigned to an ODA. All that has happened is that now you are going to put ODA guys at risk while you learn how to give orders in the midst of chaos. The mental nimbleness required for running multiple units in combats such as a infantry company commander has to do is not going to get relayed in a classroom setting. You either have done it already or you are going to have to learn what works when and what doesn't work while people are trying to kill you.

I see no reason an officer who already knows that he wants to be an ODA commander would shy away from infantry and forego the learning experience that seeing your own blood on the ground provides or worse yet the blood of your men. I don't see an ODA as the appropriate place for a captain to suddenly begin gaining combat experience. On the other hand if a person is like many of us and begins a journey down one road of life and comes to realize that the road is not satisfactory to them and they want to change directions and move over to a road that goes to an ODA then that is a different situation and not the one under discussion.

None of the above is to say that officers from other branches are not good officers, as I am sure we all have seen some very poor infantry officers who we would not wish upon any unit.

Finally as I understand the initial question it was a "what if I don't get infantry" so then you might as well do what ever pleases you. Personally, I always had an aversion to being trapped inside a big metal can so I avoided putting armor as my second or third choice.