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Old 02-14-2017, 15:08   #16
tonyz
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Did we not do the same thing with Obama? The whole birth certificate, associate with Ayers, Rev. Wright, nation of origin, inexperience, etc...

This "feels" different though. There is an air of increasingly open hostility amongst the #nevertrumpers. We never had anti-anybody "protest" (riots), never beat up Obama voters, or ripped those stupid stickers off their cars, or vandalized their yard signs. There was no march after his inauguration.

We are accused of being violent, racists, homo-islamo-xeno-phobic, yet look where all that behavior is coming from. (Its not from the right side of the fence, or even the middle).
It feels different because it is different.

Anti-Obama was predominantly anti left, anti-community organizer, anti-incompetence and yes some "anti's" were undoubtably based on a race. But, there was no apparent commitment to violence.

In contrast, there is now a convergence of dissidents again advocating loudly for total social revolution. And, the commitment to violence is palpable and lurks just under the surface.

Mike Flynn is but one scalp in this war of ideas - and he may have even handed them the knife.
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Old 02-14-2017, 15:18   #17
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Did we not do the same thing with Obama?
Were there any groups that were sponsored by the conservatives that sought to disrupt and physically prevent people from attending Obama's inauguration? Serious question.
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Old 02-14-2017, 15:29   #18
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Look, Flynn is fundamentally accused of 1) communicating with Russia (not sure why there is hysteria about this), and more importantly 2) lying to VP Pence about it. If this is true, that is why he was pushed out.

You really have to read between the lines of all the leaks. Trump's inner circle is waging a brutal "game of thrones" struggle over which faction will dominate the others. Preibus is in over his head? Bannon is hiding documents? Miller seems alright? The leaks from "anonymous white house staffers" aren't, in my opinion, career staff dudes. Almost everyone in the WH is an import from the election. The leaks (at least the ones about what is happening day to day in the White House) are usually aimed at one of the top couple of guys.

I think there is a general war among the ministers over who will steer policy. Trump brought in a diverse collection of people. Priebus is literally a party man to the core. Pence is the hard right social conservative. Bannon wants to burn the house down and re-build from scratch. Miller seems like he is being marketed as the "sane" one. Conway seems like she is fighting for relevance. Congress disagrees with most of them.

If I had to guess, I would say that the GOP and Pence are trying to UW the rest of the inner circle into compliance or an early grave while Bannon and Preibus are wrestling each other for control. The leaks are coming both from this, and from the lack of attention to asserting control over the bureaucracy that is still geared for Obama policies.
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Old 02-14-2017, 15:33   #19
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Did we not do the same thing with Obama? The whole birth certificate, associate with Ayers, Rev. Wright, nation of origin, inexperience, etc...

This "feels" different though. There is an air of increasingly open hostility amongst the #nevertrumpers. We never had anti-anybody "protest" (riots), never beat up Obama voters, or ripped those stupid stickers off their cars, or vandalized their yard signs. There was no march after his inauguration.

We are accused of being violent, racists, homo-islamo-xeno-phobic, yet look where all that behavior is coming from. (Its not from the right side of the fence, or even the middle).
No, I believe the grown ups might have bitched, whined and complained...some more loudly than others but they were still grown ups and moved on to the next election. Of which the RNC chose an idiot from a cross-section of idiots.

What we are seeing is mass hysteria and hyperbole fanning the flames of hypocrisy gone wild.

We pointed out the areas of concern regarding Obama and then dug our trenches for better or worse. Eight years in the history of the United States is a blip and so will this administration be. But the fault lines run deep and the divide has become greater than at anytime in my yet young lifetime or 54 years.

I'm am so grateful for the many parents and adults that raised me until I was 17 before finding my own way; and the path I've taken is far different than the paths of my generation and their offspring. The parallels are so different today that they converge at sharp right angles and collide. In a way it's been a long time coming from the end of the greatest generation. The baby boomers had it all and wanted more. Their offspring thinks it all belongs to them without earning it and their offspring demands that someone provide it to them on a silver platter.

They are in for a rude awakening and this is it. It's happening right now and as far as I'm concerned it can't happen fast enough or soon enough.

Let's get the party started!
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Old 02-14-2017, 16:32   #20
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Originally Posted by scooter View Post

If I had to guess, I would say that the GOP and Pence are trying to UW the rest of the inner circle into compliance or an early grave while Bannon and Preibus are wrestling each other for control. The leaks are coming both from this, and from the lack of attention to asserting control over the bureaucracy that is still geared for Obama policies.
I'd simplify slightly and say that this is a struggle of the "2-party system" versus the rogue "Bull Moose Party".

Inside the Beltway, the (2) parties need the existing system to remain in place in order to continue the status quo. Politicians and hangers-on accumulate power...money gets exchanged and the American people get screwed....the win-win-lose paradigm.

Word I heard that the rub was in Flynn leaning too far forward in the fox hole and "negotiating" or conversing with Russians prior to being officially put into power. The jackals are circling so anyone who shows weakness is going to get fired pretty rapidly is my guess.


The left in Amerika is adjusting to the historical norm of leftists utilizing increasing violence.
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Old 02-15-2017, 08:02   #21
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I'd simplify slightly and say that this is a struggle of the "2-party system" versus the rogue "Bull Moose Party".

Inside the Beltway, the (2) parties need the existing system to remain in place in order to continue the status quo. Politicians and hangers-on accumulate power...money gets exchanged and the American people get screwed....the win-win-lose paradigm.

Word I heard that the rub was in Flynn leaning too far forward in the fox hole and "negotiating" or conversing with Russians prior to being officially put into power. The jackals are circling so anyone who shows weakness is going to get fired pretty rapidly is my guess.


The left in Amerika is adjusting to the historical norm of leftists utilizing increasing violence.
BINGO!!

Only edit I would make is change "leftists" to "neo-fascists". More accurate IMO.
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Old 02-15-2017, 08:22   #22
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Were there any groups that were sponsored by the conservatives that sought to disrupt and physically prevent people from attending Obama's inauguration? Serious question.
Negative. However, if you put your faith in the media, you may be under the false impression that the Tea Party was playing the part then, that blac bloc is playing now.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:19   #23
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Suprise, suprise..."Trump knew"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/u...ike-flynn.html
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:02   #24
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I think some of these subversives should be hung in the public square...
...hung by the neck in front of their children
OMG...what a violent reaction. Totally out of reason.

Wait a minute...nevermind. It's a good idea.
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Old 02-16-2017, 21:18   #25
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Flynn

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Things escalated really quickly. Now the thing is, who's gonna replace him on a permanent basis?
Flynn didn't violate the Logan Act. I think intel needs to be evaluated and some should be relieved of their duties.
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Old 02-21-2017, 15:14   #26
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Update. H.R. McMaster picked as new National Security Advisor.
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Old 02-21-2017, 16:45   #27
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Flynn didn't violate the Logan Act. I think intel needs to be evaluated and some should be relieved of their duties.
And, of course, the Russians get another confirmation of their assumption that all their folks' comms are monitored. (Because, as Clapper said, we'd never just unilaterally eavesdrop on an American citizen.)
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Old 05-18-2020, 16:51   #28
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Correcting the record by Sidney Powell

To brighten the day - I share an open letter to former President Obama from Michael Flynn’s lawyer, Sidney Powell. Ms. Powell corrects the record and takes the most famous member of the Choom Gang to school. Complete copy and PDF version at link below.

Recall that recently - former President Obama - commenting in a leaked telephone conversation on the Michael Flynn situation reportedly said: “there is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who has been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free. That’s the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic — not just institutional norms — but our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk.” BHO

Sounds ominous doesn’t it? Read on...

Open Memorandum to Barack Obama
by Sidney Powell May 13, 2020 in Media
OPEN MEMORANDUM

To: Barack Hussein Obama
From: Sidney Powell
www.SidneyPowell.com

Date: May 13, 2020

Re: Your Failure to Find Precedent for Flynn Dismissal

Regarding the decision of the Department of Justice to dismiss charges against General Flynn, in your recent call with your alumni, you expressed great concern: “there is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who has been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free. That’s the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic — not just institutional norms — but our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk.”

Here is some help—if truth and precedent represent your true concern. Your statement is entirely false. However, it does explain the damage to the Rule of Law throughout your administration.

First, General Flynn was not charged with perjury—which requires a material false statement made under oath with intent to deceive.1 A perjury prosecution would have been appropriate and the Rule of Law applied if the Justice Department prosecuted your former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe for his multiple lies under oath in an investigation of a leak only he knew he caused.

McCabe lied under oath in fully recorded and transcribed interviews with the Inspector General for the DOJ. He was informed of the purpose of the interview, and he had had the benefit of counsel. He knew he was the leaker. McCabe even lied about lying. He lied to his own agents—which sent them on a “wild-goose-chase”—thereby making his lies “material” and an obstruction of justice. Yet, remarkably, Attorney General Barr declined to prosecute McCabe for these offenses.

Applying the Rule of Law, after declining McCabe’s perjury prosecution, required the Justice Department to dismiss the prosecution of General Flynn who was not warned, not under oath, had no counsel, and whose statements were not only not recorded, but were created as false by FBI agents who falsified the 302.

Second, it would seem your “wingman” Eric Holder is missing a step these days at Covington & Burling LLP. Indelibly marked in his memory (and one might think, yours) should be his Motion to Dismiss the multi-count jury verdict of guilty and the entire case against former United States Senator Ted Stevens. Within weeks of Mr. Holder becoming Attorney General, he moved to dismiss the Stevens prosecution in the interest of justice for the same reasons the Justice Department did against General Flynn—egregious misconduct by prosecutors who hid exculpatory evidence and concocted purported crimes.

As horrifying as the facts of the Stevens case were, they pale in comparison to the targeted setup, framing, and prosecution of a newly elected President’s National Security Advisor and the shocking facts that surround it. This case was an assault on the heart of liberty— our cherished system of self-government, the right of citizens to choose their President, and the hallowed peaceful transition of power.

Third, the inability of anyone in your alumni association to find “anybody who has been charged [with anything] just getting off scot-free” would be laughable were it not so pathetic.

Many of your alum feature prominently in the non-fiction legal thriller published in 2014: Licensed to Lie: Exposing Corruption in the Department of Justice. A national best- seller, it focusses on the egregious prosecutorial misconduct of your longest serving White House Counsel, Kathryn Ruemmler; your counter-terrorism advisor Lisa Monaco; Loretta Lynch’s DAG for the Criminal Division Leslie Caldwell; and Mueller protégé Andrew Weissmann. While they worked as federal prosecutors on the Enron Task Force—under the purported supervision of Christopher Wray—they destroyed Arthur Andersen LLP and its 85,000 jobs; sent four Merrill Lynch executives to prison on an indictment that criminalized an innocent business transaction while they hid the evidence that showed those defendants were innocent for six years. Both cases were reversed on appeal for their over-criminalization and misconduct. Indeed, Andersen was reversed by a unanimous Supreme Court.

Fourth, even if your many alumni don’t remember multiple cases that had to be reversed or dismissed for their own misconduct, Judge Emmet Sullivan should remember dismissing the corrupted case against Ted Stevens. Judge Sullivan is the judicial hero of Licensed to Lie. It is that case that caused Judge Sullivan to enter the strong Brady order the Mueller and D.C. career prosecutors violated repeatedly in the Flynn prosecution.

Fifth, there is precedent for guilty pleas being vacated. Your alumni Weissmann and Ruemmler are no strangers to such reversals. At least two guilty pleas they coerced by threats against defendants in Houston had to be thrown out—again for reasons like those here. The defendants “got off scot-free” because—like General Flynn—your alumni had concocted the charges and terrorized the defendants into pleading guilty to “offenses” that were not crimes. Andersen partner David Duncan even testified for the government against Andersen in its trial, but his plea had to be vacated. Enron Broadband defendant Christopher Calger had his plea vacated. There are many others across the country.

Sixth, should further edification be necessary, see Why Innocent People Plead Guilty, written in 2014 by federal Judge Jed Rakoff (a Clinton appointee). Abusive prosecutors force innocent people to plead guilty with painful frequency. The Mueller special counsel operation led by Andrew Weissmann and Weissmann “wannabes” specializes in prosecutorial terrorist tactics repulsive to everything “justice” is supposed to mean. These tactics are designed to intimidate their targets into pleading guilty—while punishing them and their families with the process itself and financial ruin.

Most important, General Flynn was honest with the FBI agents. They knew he was—and briefed that to McCabe and others three different times. At McCabe’s directions, Agent Strzok and McCabe’s “Special Counsel” Lisa Page, altered the 302 to create statements Weissmann, Mueller, Van Grack, and Zainab Ahmad could assert were false. Only the FBI agents lied—and falsified documents. The crimes are theirs alone.

Seventh, the D.C. circuit in which you reside vacated a Section 1001 case for a legal failure much less egregious than those in General Flynn’s case. United States v. Safavian, 528 F.3d 957 (D.C. Cir. 2008). Safavian sought advice from his agency’s ethics board and did not give them all the relevant info. The jury convicted him on the theory it was a 1001 violation to conceal the information from the government ethics board. The court disagreed: “As Safavian argues and as the government agrees, there must be a legal duty to disclose in order for there to be a concealment offense in violation of § 1001(a)(1), yet the government failed to identify a legal disclosure duty except by reference to vague standards of conduct for government employees.” General Flynn did not even know he was the subject of an investigation—and in truth, he was not. The only crimes here were by your alumni in the FBI, White House, intelligence community, and Justice Department.

These are just a few obvious and well-known examples to those paying any attention to criminal justice issues.

Finally, the “leaked” comments from your alumni call further evinces your obsession with destroying a distinguished veteran of the United States Army who has defended the Constitution and this country “from all enemies, foreign and domestic,” with the highest honor for thirty-three years. He and many others will continue to do so.

1As a “constitutional lawyer,” surely you recall that perjury (or false statements) also requires intent to deceive. In Bronston v. United States, 409 U.S. 352 (1973), the Supreme Court reversed a conviction of perjury. In Bronston, the defendant’s answer was a truthful statement, but not directly responsive to the question and ultimately misled federal authorities. The Court determined: “A jury should not be permitted to engage in conjecture whether an unresponsive answer, true and complete on its face, was intended to mislead or divert the examiner; the state of mind of the witness is relevant only to the extent that it bears on whether “he does not believe [his answer] to be true.” To hold otherwise would be to inject a new and confusing element into the adversary testimonial system we know.” Id. at 359. The FBI agents who interviewed General Flynn specifically noted that his answers were true or he believed his answers to be true—completely defeating criminal intent. Furthermore, General Flynn knew and remarked they had transcripts of his conversations.

https://sidneypowell.com/media/open-...-barack-obama/
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Old 05-19-2020, 06:23   #29
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To brighten the day -
Thanks very much for that. Don't get as much time lately to ferret as I'd like & that is much appreciated on this end, for its references as well as the history that applies them.

Damn, that's a lot of rope...
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:29   #30
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This is fascinating...the amicus-prosecutor (who Judge Sullivan put in place to substitute for the DOJ) wants a hearing for oral argument when Flynn couldn’t even get a hearing to withdraw his plea !

People more than occasionally plead or settle for a variety of reasons not the least of which is to simply stop the financial and emotional destruction they experience at the hands of unscrupulous attorneys - not because they are actually guilty of a given accusation - but because of the very real financial and emotional pain that can be imposed by lawyers backed by folks with deep pockets or comparatively unlimited resources is very, very real.

As an outside observer it is interesting to contrast the zeal with which the powers-that-be under the Obama administration went after Flynn...with the comparatively kid-glove treatment of Hillary by essentially the same players such as Comey, Stroczk, Page, and even Andy McCabe...not to mention...dare I use this term during the pandemic...the UNMASKERS ! Samantha Power? Jeesh !

There really does seem to be two tiers of justice at play. If you are part of the “cool kids” cohort...you get immunity or no prosecution...if you are with Trump...the deep state and the swamp creatures will bend or break every rule or norm to take you out.

Absolutely Nuts – Court Appointed Amicus Prosecutor Requests: Briefing Schedule, Oral Arguments and Possible Witness Fact-Finding, in Flynn Case…
Conservative Treehouse
Posted on May 18, 2020
by sundance

This is so far outside the bounds of traditional judicial activity it is unprecedented. In the case against Michael Flynn the court appointed amicus curiae, essentially a court appointed outside lawyer enlisted to prosecute the case despite the DOJ withdrawal motion, John Gleeson has now filed a motion requesting: (1) a briefing schedule, (2) oral arguments; and (3) the possibility of interviewing witnesses.

Within Mr. Gleeson’s motion (link here) he will file his amicus brief on June 10th, and asks Judge Sullivan to set up a briefing schedule and allow him to make oral arguments.

Why would John Gleeson get the chance for a hearing to make an oral argument within the court, yet Flynn’s defense team couldn’t get a hearing scheduled on his original motion to withdraw his plea? This is ridiculous.

In the traditional sense, to the extent that traditional applications can be considered in this bizarre situation, the amicus would present a written briefing to the court for the judge to consider; and that’s it. However, Mr. Gleeson appears to be requesting his amicus status to be elevated to the position of intervening authority where he replaces the prosecution.

A request for a briefing schedule? The only purpose of Judge Sullivan allowing a briefing schedule would be to drag this case out as long as possible. Perhaps that is the goal; we shall see in his decision on this ridiculous request.

“Any additional factual development” would seem to imply Mr. Gleeson is planning to spend time investigating facts that are not currently before the court; including the possibility of Mr. Gleeson interviewing witnesses.

If Judge Emett Sullivan grants anything even close to the requests within this motion he will be operating so far outside of judicial boundaries an appellate court must intervene.

Seriously, this is Lawfare madness in the extreme.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...e/#more-192037
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