Decisions, decisions … or life after Hawai’i

Tropic_Mjolnir · 05-10-2005, 22:47

I wasn’t sure where to put this thread, but as it’s a general question and related to SF I thought I’d throw it in there. That needless preamble offered, I begin!

About August of last year I started thinking about long-term career goals; not so much in promotion, more along the lines of, “Just what should I do with myself?” In addition to logging some skull time with the subject, I bounced the idea of some friends and co-workers. More often than not their answers led in two directions: selection or OCS. While I understand that going to OCS does not preclude going to selection, the reverse is less and less true as I’m currently 27 years old.

One of the reasons I enlisted in the Infantry was out of a perceived sense of need; my nation had been attacked and I wanted to take an active part in the fight. It is this same sense of need that leads me to ask for some help in answering this, purposefully vague and open ended question. What does Group need more, NCOs or Officers? So assuming a person could do either well (and understanding this is a big assumption, but give it some room to run for sake of argument), which is needed “more?”

Thank you in advance for any help you can give me regarding this. Feel free to post any and all opinions, thoughts, musings, flames, cajoles, hexes, off-handed remarks, pithy comments and other forms of textual elaboration via both post and PM form.

Mahalo nui loa,

M

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 05-11-2005, 05:45

SF needs both good SF officers and SF NCOs so the question is which career track do you want to follow? As there are no quarantees that you would be selected for either you also need to figure out what you want to do if you do not make it. There is enough information on this site for you to get a good idea of what each MOS brings to the force but you have to be realistic and understand that regardless of what you might want the needs of the service will be the overriding determinate of your future.

tyrsnbdr · 05-11-2005, 06:39

Trust me on this one, if you want to go SF, do it as an NCO. It is so much easier to "get your shot." In that, I mean invited to SFAS. If you want to do planning for soldiers then become an Officer, but you don't have the flexability in your career field that and enlisted soldier has. Just things for you to consider.

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 05-11-2005, 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrsnbdr

If you want to do planning for soldiers then become an Officer, but you don't have the flexability in your career field that and enlisted soldier has. Just things for you to consider.

Let me see, hmmm, no flexibility in my career as an officer and all I did was planning. Evidently you have no idea what 18As do.

Jack Moroney

dennisw · 05-11-2005, 17:43

I think you can see where the answers are headed. What has been said makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, this is one you'll have to answer for yourself(obviously). What do you enjoy? I have a friend who recently retired from the Marines as a colonel. He always wanted to be in charge of a big unit. That idea never appealed to me. I would rather be in a small unit and creep up on someone. What do you like?

I would think if you were successful in becoming SF you could always go to OCS later. What if you were not successful in becoming SF, would you still want to become an officer?

Good luck.

**The Reaper** · 05-11-2005, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennisw

I think you can see where the answers are headed. What has been said makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, this is one you'll have to answer for yourself(obviously). What do you enjoy? I have a friend who recently retired from the Marines as a colonel. He always wanted to be in charge of a big unit. That idea never appealed to me. I would rather be in a small unit and creep up on someone. What do you like?

I would think if you were successful in becoming SF you could always go to OCS later. What if you were not successful in becoming SF, would you still want to become an officer?

Good luck.

Going SF enlisted does not mean if you complete OCS later, you are an SF officer. We have more 18A applicants than we neeed, so the board does an initial cut, then SFAS takes another slice. The same Year Group rules apply, and we do not have SF 2LTs. You would have to go through most of the SFQC again, after 2-3 years in your Basic Branch. If you fail or succeed, you still owe your service obligation, just like an 18X. FYI, the officer also is only on the team for 24-36 months, max.

There is also the 180A option to consider, if you go SF enlisted and later decide that you want to be in charge. Most of the teams have either an 18A, or a 180A, but not both, so the 180A often gets to be a Team Leader.

HTH.

TR

tyrsnbdr · 05-11-2005, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

Let me see, hmmm, no flexibility in my career as an officer and all I did was planning. Evidently you have no idea what 18As do.

Jack Moroney

Sir, with all do respect, I was giving more from my sulking point of view. Unfortunately for me, I will never know what it is like to be an 18A on AD. This doesn’t mean I can’t still be successful in my career. I just need to make sure I don’t burn any bridges in the near future. I hope you accept my apoligy.

tyrsnbdr- Young Punk Captain meditating on his future life in the G6 shop.

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 05-11-2005, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrsnbdr

I hope you accept my apoligy.

There is no apology needed, you have every right to state your views and opinions. My point basically is that you cannot look at what you may or may not do as an officer in other branches and compare it to what officers of equivalent grades do in SF. And no, that doesn't mean you will not be successful in whatever you chose to do. The Army, unbeknown to some folks in the Pentagon, is not an Army of One but a team of many. All branches contribute something of value to the effort and whatever anyone does in any branch is worth doing well or we all suffer the consequences.

Jack Moroney

**Ambush Master** · 05-11-2005, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrsnbdr

tyrsnbdr- Young Punk Captain meditating on his future life in the G6 shop.

Sir,
#1. You appear, to a casual observer, to be somewhat lacking in "Situational Awareness" !!

#2. Not trying to be a Wise Ass, you need to become more educated in what the relationship/duties of an 18A is to the Team before you attempt to answer some hopeful's question !! (Being Tabbed would definitely be a PLUS !!)

#3. Due to your extreme lack of SA, it most probably would be VERY wise of you to leave the "advice" to those that ARE QPs !!! Even if some of us are NCOs !!!!

That IS the way SF works.

Best of luck to'ya

Later
Martin

Maytime · 05-11-2005, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

FYI, the officer also is only on the team for 24-36 months, max.

TR, what happens afterwards to the officer?

**The Reaper** · 05-12-2005, 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maytime

TR, what happens afterwards to the officer?

He is frozen in Carbonite and traded for Spice.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Actually, there are a lot of staff jobs requiring 18A O-3s/4s at the company level and above, so they move on up. They may even have a nominative assignment in the interim. Just like other officers after their company command.

They should be back as Majors to be SF Company Commanders, Battalion/Group Ops Officers, or Battalion Executive Officers.

HTH.

TR

Wannakuba · 05-12-2005, 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

He is frozen in Carbonite and traded for Spice.

HAHAHAHAHA.

**Razor** · 05-12-2005, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Actually, there are a lot of staff jobs requiring 18A O-3s/4s at the company level and above, so they move on up. They may even have a nominative assignment in the interim. Just like other officers after their company command.

They should be back as Majors to be SF Company Commanders, Battalion/Group Ops Officers, or Battalion Executive Officers.

TR

Along with what TR already mentioned, guys can go be O/Cs or do other work at the Combat Training Centers, fill other staff positions, attend advanced civil schooling, attend Naval Postgraduate School, go teach at USMA, be a liaison with other countries' armed forces, or a host of other assignments while waiting to go to Command & General Staff College. If the officer decides to move to one of the other functional area tracks, there's a host of schooling and 'outside SF' assignments; however, these folks will not likely return to SF branch for future SF command assignments.

Blueboy · 05-12-2005, 16:42

Just my two cents......life does not end for an SF officer once you leave an ODA. Sure, you're not fast-roping, shooting, diving, jumping, etc like you were on a team, but there is more to SF than that. Moreover, your role as an SF officer is not to be a "shooter" (although you will be expected to lead from the front)---it is to provide LEADERSHIP, GUIDANCE, and SUPPORT to the teams, and that does not end once your rucksack leaves a teamroom. As a matter of fact, that's when it really starts. Whether you're the BN Asst S-3, S-4, S-1, or HSC Cdr, you're viewed as a more experienced CPT----one who has cut his teeth on an ODA and proved his worth----and, consequently, more is expected of you. As a MAJ, the ante gets upped. But where else in the Army can an O-4 command a company of America's finest warriors? Only in SF. I thank my lucky stars eveyday that I made the decision to go to SFAS---being an SF officer is truly the best job in the armed forces.
Hope this sheds some light for some of the hopefuls.....

jbour13 · 05-12-2005, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

He is frozen in Carbonite and traded for Spice.

LOL!!

Tropic....I just hate to hear that you have to leave paradise. I went kicking and screaming and have wanted to go back ever since. Scuba diving was my hobby for my 3 1/2 years there and I haven't been since I left 3 years ago.

I miss it and hope you spent your time as I did......no, not drunk and sunburned.