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Old 01-02-2018, 07:42   #1
Intel NCO
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SF Prep Course Attendance by Active Duty

Saw this posted a bit ago on S1 NET.

Key point: Active Duty will now be eligible for attendance at the SF Prep Course prior to leading into SFAS. There are three courses available so far this year (per the document).

Question: What do you guys think about this?

Text below, with the FOUO redacted.


Quote:
ALARACT 106/2017
DTG: R 282032Z NOV 17

1. REDACTED

2. REDACTED

3. (U) THE SFPC IS A THREE-WEEK PROGRAM THAT UTILIZES A HOLISTIC APPROACH TO PHYSICAL CONDITIONING THAT INCLUDES NUTRITION, HYDRATION, INJURY PREVENTION AND REHABILITATION, AND EXERCISE DEVELOPMENT. ADDITIONAL AREAS OF EMPHASIS INCLUDE THE PROGRESSIVE DEVELOPMENT OF THE SKILLS NECESSARY FOR LAND NAVIGATION AND LEADERSHIP IN DYNAMIC AND COMPLEX ENVIRONMENTS. SFPC IS CONDUCTED IN A FIELD ENVIRONMENT.

4. (U) THE OPPORTUNITY TO ATTEND THE PRECEDING SFPC IS AVAILABLE TO ADE SOLDIERS WHO HAVE A VALID ATRRS RESERVATION CLASS QUOTA FOR THE SFAS (CLASSES 05-018, 06-018, AND 08-018). IF A SOLDIER HAS A WAIVER BEING PROCESSED FOR SFAS ATTENDANCE, THE WAIVER MUST BE CLEARED PRIOR TO SCHEDULING FOR SFPC. ALL CANDIDATES MUST MEET SPECIAL FORCES RECRUITMENT PREREQUISITES AND VOLUNTEERS MUST CONTACT THEIR SORB POINT OF CONTACT TO REQUEST ATTENDANCE.

5. REDACTED

6. (U) A TRAP ACTION IS REQUIRED TO SUPPORT TRAINING SEAT REQUIREMENTS AND CLASS SEAT RESERVATIONS FOR CLASSES BY COMMANDER, U.S. ARMY RECRUITING COMMAND, SPECIAL OPERATIONS RECRUITING BATTALION. FUNDING TO SUPPORT ALL ACTIVE DUTY ENLISTED SOLDIERS, EXCEPT THOSE STATIONED AT FORT BRAGG, VOLUNTEERING TO ATTEND SFPC PRIOR TO SFAS WILL UTILIZE MTSA FUNDING. SERVICE MEMBERS WILL ATTEND TRAINING IN A FIELD DUTY STATUS WITH LODGING PROVIDED AT NO COST TO THE SERVICE MEMBER. ALL IN-SERVICE ACTIVE DUTY ENLISTED APPROVED TO ATTEND WILL TRAVEL ON A SINGLE ORDER ISSUED TO COVER THE DURATION OF SFPC AND SFAS, APPROXIMATELY 51 DAYS.

7. (U) THE FOLLOWING DEPICTS THE REPORT DATES FOR SFPC WITH FOLLOW-ON SFAS:

*Edited for Readability; Dates in ATRRS*
SFPC CLASS 04-18; 05-18; 07-18
SFAS CLASS 05-18; 06-18; 08-18

8. (U) ALL IN-SERVICE ACTIVE DUTY ENLISTED STUDENTS ARRIVING FOR SFPC TRAINING, AT THE SPECIAL WARFARE CENTER AND SCHOOL, WILL REPORT TO THE SPECIAL WARFARE CENTER AND SCHOOL PERSONNEL ADMINISTRATIVE CENTER (SWCSPAC), LOCATED ON THE 6THFLOOR, WING B, OF THE FORT BRAGG SOLDIER SUPPORT CENTER, BUILDING 4-2843 NORMANDY DRIVE. FOR ARRIVALS DURING NORMAL DUTY HOURS, REPORT TO THE SWCSPAC RECEPTION DESK, LOCATED ON THE 6TH FLOOR, WING B. FOR AFTER DUTY HOURS ARRIVALS, REPORT TO THE STAFF DUTY DESK LOCATED NEAR THE MAIN ENTRANCE ON THE 1ST FLOOR AND INDICATE THAT YOU ARE REPORTING FOR SFPC TRAINING.

9. REDACTED

10. (U) THIS ALARACT MESSAGE EXPIRES ON 30 SEPTEMBER 2018.
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:42   #2
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Get out and exercise, ruck and be mentally prepared. You do not need a prep course to succeed if you have the mentality, drive and are what they are looking for.

This give me the answers to the test need to stop.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:06   #3
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IMO we are not looking for the guy who needs a helping hand to get prepared for Selection or the Q. If he is not a self-starter, motivated to do the research to know what to expect (used to be hard, now a days there are books, the internet, etc.), and prepare for it, then they should stay in Big Army where someone can hold their hand and tell them everything they need to know.

Unfortunately this is the by-product of several other discussions, growth of the force, recruiting shortcomings, etc. Right now the enlisted MOS's are not recruiting enough to make mission even if every one starting Selection made it, so what to do..? I guess this is one COA.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:38   #4
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The whole idea of a "prep" course for an assessment is disgusting.
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Old 01-02-2018, 20:51   #5
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Disgusting? You guys must be real old.

I received a sample training program booklet(?) from SWCS along with my acceptance letter for Selection. So I had it easy after all. Ha! Just joking QPs who commented. I'm with you. I know and agree where you are coming from. Funny, I spent a lot of time thinking about that training program that I received and whether it was actually "the best" or perhaps it was, in reality, not adequate, and rather part of the selection process. Trying to see if I would underachieve...

I decided that it was probably bullshit, and anyway not what I personally needed to be successful. I determined that failure was me hurting myself or being too burnt out before selection to succeed, and short of that I was good. Grip strength, rope climbing technique, pullups, foot toughness, leg strength and ruck marching endurance, running endurance , and swimming, was what I figured I needed and what I worked on. I knew I knew land nav so I figured I was good there... I figured I would do the best that I could short of hurting myself and made up my own program and single mindedly pursued that at the detriment to everything else... to include a long term relationship that I was in. (e.g. I know it's your birthday, honey, but today is my long ruck day so I need to take a raincheck on dinner until tomorrow.). Funny, I never really felt the need for a butt buddy to hold my hand during my training. Looking back, I guess I believed that it was an individual journey that I needed to walk alone. That I would succeed or fail at...on my own. I DID NOT WANT TO TIE MY SUCCESS OR FAILURE TO ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL. Sure, I looked for G2, but the best that I got was some foot care info and standard Ranger School prep BS. So I went with that.

And in this one post is more information and confirmation on how to pass SF selection than I EVER received. Maybe that's bad?
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Old 01-02-2018, 22:12   #6
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The whole idea of a "prep" course for an assessment is disgusting.
I agree 100%.

And the same applies to "Ranger or "Pre-Ranger"

Part of the assessment is a gut check of the candidate without structured pre-training.
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Old 01-03-2018, 21:39   #7
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Is this along the lines of the old Pre-Phase training conducted while waiting to go to Phase I?
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Old 01-05-2018, 08:11   #8
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Why would any AD soldier WANT to go to a pre-SFAS course? Practice getting hazed before they haze you?

"Who here has not been slapped today?? Please come forward."

I agree with SF BHT. I have to ask though, what does this program cost SWC in terms of manpower and budget? Is it even worth extending an already long course by adding more requirements on the front end? Any brothers here able to educate us on the pro's of "Pre Hazing"?
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:26   #9
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Hm

Hm, my Pre Phase was the bus ride from Ft Benning to Ft Bragg Thursday night.

Bus stopped at the 82nd Repo Det around 0600 on Friday and was out at Camp MacKall by around 1700 for Phase I that same day.
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Old 01-05-2018, 19:04   #10
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Why in the world would anyone want to put themselves through any more of the hard labor than necessary.
I got done with JS at Christmas, went home for a week or so then to Bragg for Phase 1. I enjoyed the much needed time off before the crap hit the fan and I couldn't see going though three more weeks of it, just because.
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Old 01-05-2018, 19:55   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue02hd View Post
Why would any AD soldier WANT to go to a pre-SFAS course? Practice getting hazed before they haze you?

"Who here has not been slapped today?? Please come forward."

I agree with SF BHT. I have to ask though, what does this program cost SWC in terms of manpower and budget? Is it even worth extending an already long course by adding more requirements on the front end? Any brothers here able to educate us on the pro's of "Pre Hazing"?
Blue02, that is exactly the course I have spoken of in the team room....it corrupts the purpose of SFAS it is a physical and skill prep course for SFAS....they are rucked until their feet and bodies harden...taught skills, physically trained for the PT test called physical assessment today.....it is teaching and prepping to the test......the entire purpose is to reduce attrition in SFAS....the problem with it? It us led by SF soldiers/ cadre and it eliminates the evaluation of initiative and self discipline and since it is preparation to the test.....kind of makes a guy question as to what the purpose of an assessment and selection is for
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Old 01-05-2018, 21:51   #12
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Great points.
What about pre-SCUBA?
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Old 01-05-2018, 22:10   #13
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Originally Posted by abc_123 View Post
Great points.
What about pre-SCUBA?
Or, pre-Ranger?
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:24   #14
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Great points.
What about pre-SCUBA?
As a former SFUWO cadre, I will tell you that pre-scuba existed to save TDY funds, and prevent a bunch of people who were not CDQC material from just getting a free plane ticket to Key West.

It let the groups evaluate who was trainable and therefore could pass CDQC, and who was a "panicker" or did not have the level of physical fitness to succeed.

Edit: I should add that this was not written in stone anywhere, this was just the urban legend / institutional knowldge
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Old 01-06-2018, 06:18   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abc_123 View Post
Disgusting? You guys must be real old.

I received a sample training program booklet(?) from SWCS along with my acceptance letter for Selection. So I had it easy after all. Ha! Just joking QPs who commented. I'm with you. I know and agree where you are coming from. Funny, I spent a lot of time thinking about that training program that I received and whether it was actually "the best" or perhaps it was, in reality, not adequate, and rather part of the selection process. Trying to see if I would underachieve...

I decided that it was probably bullshit, and anyway not what I personally needed to be successful. I determined that failure was me hurting myself or being too burnt out before selection to succeed, and short of that I was good. Grip strength, rope climbing technique, pullups, foot toughness, leg strength and ruck marching endurance, running endurance , and swimming, was what I figured I needed and what I worked on. I knew I knew land nav so I figured I was good there... I figured I would do the best that I could short of hurting myself and made up my own program and single mindedly pursued that at the detriment to everything else... to include a long term relationship that I was in. (e.g. I know it's your birthday, honey, but today is my long ruck day so I need to take a raincheck on dinner until tomorrow.). Funny, I never really felt the need for a butt buddy to hold my hand during my training. Looking back, I guess I believed that it was an individual journey that I needed to walk alone. That I would succeed or fail at...on my own. I DID NOT WANT TO TIE MY SUCCESS OR FAILURE TO ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL. Sure, I looked for G2, but the best that I got was some foot care info and standard Ranger School prep BS. So I went with that.

And in this one post is more information and confirmation on how to pass SF selection than I EVER received. Maybe that's bad?
Same here. Went to the recruiter and got a blue covered booklet. I read through it and threw it in the trash. I felt it was meant for someone that was coming from an MI posting in Washington DC. My LRS 12 mile standard was already 3hrs with a 50 lb ruck and we frequently did 65 lb rucks for PT. Land nav skills have always been excellent and we taught Lat/Long at the detachment because you never knew what maps you would get. My train up was a 6 miler and a 12 miler before I went on block leave and the came back and went straight to Bragg. SFAS was like a 21 day LRS PT/Landnav course!

5th group was probably 1/10th made up of guys from my detachment that wanted to stay at Ft Campbell. We were definitely an SF feeder unit.

I was 30 when I went and started at the back of the pack because all of the young guys would sprint out. I really thought I was doing horrible. But the young guys would peter out quickly and I always finished in the top 3rd for running and rucking and almost every time, 1st in land nav. All that with 2 herniated discs.

They are definitely breaking their very own SOF Truths and I’m pretty sure they know it and don’t give a shit. It’s all about the numbers. And with attrition of us FOGs and an added 4th Bn. The numbers aren’t there. When I got to Group there were only 5 teams per company. It wasn’t until our 2nd tour to Astan before we stood up a 6th team and that’s when we started seeing some less than stellar performers creeping in.

Why don’t we reduce our Group requirements? Cut out a team in every company and fill up the ranks again. Get rid of Pre-selection and send those cadre back to their groups.
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