10-23-2014, 20:20
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#31
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NM
Posts: 92
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I can see your point with people liberals remaining consistent with liberals and republicans going back and forth on libertarian and republican.
Palliative eh? Well played sir.
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Lighthouse is offline
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10-23-2014, 20:38
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#32
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western WI
Posts: 6,817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse
I can see your point with people liberals remaining consistent with liberals and republicans going back and forth on libertarian and republican.
Palliative eh? Well played sir.
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Personally I don't think even 1 or 2 full cycles of voting is going to get close to changing anything substantial because of this marvelous transformation we've been on for awhile now. I'd vote libertarian in a viable situation in a NY minute. But I've personally seen the affect those candidacies often have; sad but true. We got 4 more years of a "I Loves My Taxes" dem governor before the current one (thank the stars for term limits) because a Libertarian split off just enough of the vote; individual known personally to me, owned a supper club right here in town. Told me afterward that it was the stupidest thing he'd ever done.
As a side note, I happened to catch CSPAN's replay of the CPUSA national meeting back in June, hosted at the University of Illinois (try to get over your shock). Sam Webb, their National Chair at the time, specifically stated that they gain no ground running candidates under their banner for the time being. He makes no bones about the fact that they are using the Democratic party to advance their agendas [now who's the "tool"?] until "we can take them further to some higher ground" and have wrapped themselves up in environmental causes. This is a great way to hamstring the evil capitalist monsters (and daily news accounts of the Enviro-cops bears this out).
One other tidbit useful if you ever get to a boring cocktail party or some outdoor bazaar with these CPUSA yay-hoos and want some entertainment - just mention the Koch Bros. or the Keystone Pipeline project and they will spin-up higher than an F1 engine. Man that guy was almost foaming at the mouth...
So if the Communists have learned not to squander votes in order to avoid drawing away from their current useful idiots...
__________________
"Civil Wars don't start when a few guys hunt down a specific bastard. Civil Wars start when many guys hunt down the nearest bastards."
The coin paid to enforce words on parchment is blood; tyrants will not be stopped with anything less dear. - QP Peregrino
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Badger52 is offline
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10-23-2014, 22:08
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#33
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NM
Posts: 92
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Personally I just struggle with doing the same thing again. Also that the supreme court ruled money is free speech and there are no limits on donations. How a currency is equal to something free is beyond me. I'm willing to bet both sides of the fence have the same backers.
I won't ever vote for a democrat though. The entire ideology is based on segregation and managing the poor and uneducated. Hopefully the republicans take the senate over the dems though. Just the fact they think anything Barry O does is good is enough justification to get rid of someone.
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Lighthouse is offline
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10-24-2014, 03:53
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#34
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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2008 NC Election results
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse
You guys really feel libertarian votes are wasted votes?
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2008 NC Election results
Obama 2,142,651
McCain 2,128,474
Difference 14,177
The press loved to say NC had turned Blue. But Barr ran as a Libertarian.
His total 25,722
It's fixin' to happen again this year between Hagan, Tillis and Haugh. Haugh? Who's Haugh? Haugh is the Libertarian who's pulling 2% to 7% of the vote depending on the source you read.
The Libertarians (I have two in the extended family) don't really give a shit about who wins - they just want 2% of the vote in NC so they have an easier time getting on the ballot.
2012
Romney 2,270,395
Obama 2,178,391
Gray (L) 44,515 (0.99%)
Write in 12,071 (0.27%)
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Pete is offline
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10-24-2014, 07:10
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#35
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Asset
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Deep South
Posts: 38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
2008 NC Election results
Obama 2,142,651
McCain 2,128,474
Difference 14,177
The press loved to say NC had turned Blue. But Barr ran as a Libertarian.
His total 25,722
It's fixin' to happen again this year between Hagan, Tillis and Haugh. Haugh? Who's Haugh? Haugh is the Libertarian who's pulling 2% to 7% of the vote depending on the source you read.
The Libertarians (I have two in the extended family) don't really give a shit about who wins - they just want 2% of the vote in NC so they have an easier time getting on the ballot.
2012
Romney 2,270,395
Obama 2,178,391
Gray (L) 44,515 (0.99%)
Write in 12,071 (0.27%)
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libertarians tend to take almost as many votes away from the left, as right. Currently in South Carolina, there is a 'Independent Republican' Ervin. Ervin roughly is taking 1 out of every 6 votes from the Democratic candidate for Governor. The left blames Ralph Nader for Gore losing in 2000. Pete is on point as always.. Tillis very can lose a race he should by just a few votes going to the Libertarian candidate.
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Marlboro is offline
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10-24-2014, 07:48
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#36
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Yeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlboro
libertarians tend to take almost as many votes away from the left, as right. Currently in South Carolina, there is a 'Independent Republican' Ervin. Ervin roughly is taking 1 out of every 6 votes from the Democratic candidate for Governor. The left blames Ralph Nader for Gore losing in 2000. Pete is on point as always.. Tillis very can lose a race he should by just a few votes going to the Libertarian candidate.
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Yeah, I keep hearing that all over the place but haven't seen any statistics to back it up.
Heard plenty of Conservative say "I'm pissed off at Republicans, I'm voting third party". Haven't hear any Lib's say "I'm pissed off at Democrats, I'm voting Libertarian."
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Pete is offline
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10-24-2014, 08:40
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#37
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NM
Posts: 92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Yeah, I keep hearing that all over the place but haven't seen any statistics to back it up.
Heard plenty of Conservative say "I'm pissed off at Republicans, I'm voting third party". Haven't hear any Lib's say "I'm pissed off at Democrats, I'm voting Libertarian."
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I agree. Democrats are very much a cult.
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Lighthouse is offline
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10-24-2014, 08:57
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#38
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Asset
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Deep South
Posts: 38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Yeah, I keep hearing that all over the place but haven't seen any statistics to back it up.
Heard plenty of Conservative say "I'm pissed off at Republicans, I'm voting third party". Haven't hear any Lib's say "I'm pissed off at Democrats, I'm voting Libertarian."
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It isn't they are pissed off, it's they are simply arguing against what they consider "corporatists, and warhawks." The fringe right, and left, overlap on the political spectrum at a certain point.
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Marlboro is offline
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10-24-2014, 09:42
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#39
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Do you....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlboro
It isn't they are pissed off, it's they are simply arguing against what they consider "corporatists, and warhawks." The fringe right, and left, overlap on the political spectrum at a certain point.
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Do you have any type of survey to back that up?
I'll post this pre election Poll
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/doc...age_102314.pdf
The Governor poll seems to back your view - but the Senator poll backs mine. Nothing counts but on election day.
Is interesting that a Carter is running.
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Pete is offline
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10-24-2014, 11:27
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#40
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Asset
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Deep South
Posts: 38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Do you have any type of survey to back that up?
I'll post this pre election Poll
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/doc...age_102314.pdf
The Governor poll seems to back your view - but the Senator poll backs mine. Nothing counts but on election day.
Is interesting that a Carter is running.
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Check this out --
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...-secret-emails
It shows the disconnect between the 'base' of the left, and the progressive fringe.
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Marlboro is offline
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10-24-2014, 11:38
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#41
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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I didn't see
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlboro
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I didn't see "Libertarian" or "Republican" in that story.
I did see voting for maybe Warren over Clinton in the primary and going Green or sitting it out in the general.
Keep looking.
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Pete is offline
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10-24-2014, 12:26
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#42
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western WI
Posts: 6,817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlboro
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Thanks for that link to remind me of another name dropped in that speech I referenced by the CPUSA Chair that he liked: Elizabeth Warren.
Pretty wild Google group that one; I'll bet they're celebrating those emails going public so the NSA aren't the only ones to have them. Wonder how the Billary Empire's daughter runs with this now that she's been made a full-partner & "in charge."
__________________
"Civil Wars don't start when a few guys hunt down a specific bastard. Civil Wars start when many guys hunt down the nearest bastards."
The coin paid to enforce words on parchment is blood; tyrants will not be stopped with anything less dear. - QP Peregrino
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Badger52 is offline
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10-25-2014, 05:22
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#43
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS...again
Posts: 4,702
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Who are you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlboro
You guys are crazy. You don't even seem to understand that every individual that has the title -- "Quiet Professional" on here is a political goldmine. This is what I dislike about a lot of folks, they don't see the best way to change the system, is be the system.
Don't like the education system? Run for school board.
Don't like allocation of resources in your town? Run for mayor/city council/alderman.
Come on guys, you've spent your entire career watching you & your buddies 6, and thinking on the fly. What you take for granted, MOST of the folks running pay a team for.
I'm so tired of having half the armed services committee having never served, and a congress that doesn't want to give pay raises to the troops.
I'm just saying...
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You make a statement of what, QPs should do politically however, have you ever walked in our shoes?
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“It is better to have sheep led by a lion than lions led by a sheep.”
-DE OPPRESSO LIBER-
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Guy is offline
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10-25-2014, 11:18
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#44
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Asset
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Deep South
Posts: 38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
I didn't see "Libertarian" or "Republican" in that story.
I did see voting for maybe Warren over Clinton in the primary and going Green or sitting it out in the general.
Keep looking.
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Pete, here is you a study: http://publicreligion.org/research/2...values-survey/
Read this for further information on the connectivity: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HTQ31TA?btkr=1
Feel free to message me, I'd be more than happy to discuss this topic at length. Unfortunately, I don't check the message board regularly.
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Marlboro is offline
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10-26-2014, 07:47
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#45
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 3,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse
You guys really feel libertarian votes are wasted votes?
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Votes are never wasted. They either help someone get elected or prevent someone from being elected.
If in an area, the Libertarian party is a major party and viable, then they have a chance of direct influence.
If they are a minor party and organized they can parley influence with a major party. If unorganized, they tend to just be spoilers.
e.g. The Green party is organized and directly influences the DEM party during the Primary. They cannot vote during the Primary, but they effectively influence the DEM party in their party's pick for the General.
IMO, Libertarians need to put down the Cheetos and get organized.
Personally, I feel that Libertarians belong in the GOP tent.
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The two most powerful warriors are patience and time - Leo Tolstoy
It's Never Crowded Along the Extra Mile - Wayne Dyer
WOKE = Willfully Overlooking Known Evil
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