Old 03-11-2012, 18:37   #1
cbtengr
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Colt 380 Govt.

I purchased a stainless model of the Colt 380 Govt back in 91, bought it for personal defense. At the time I purchased it the most popular automatics at the time seemed to be the high capacity 9 mm's. I have small hands and never felt comfortable with the grip of the 9mm's or even 1911 45, The 380 was the best fit. I have never fired anything other than FMJ rounds through it and am now starting to think about a round with more stopping power. I have been to several shooting forums and opinions on what to use are like..... well you all know. Some say Winchester JHP, others say Federal Hydra Shok also mentioned were CorBon JHP and then others say the FMJ is just fine. I know that there are some very knowledgable shooters out there on this site and I defer to you all's better judgment as to what I should try. In pricing the various types of ammo I have learned that there is a huge difference in cost between the plinking ammo FMJ and the JHP's. In the end I want to have what is going to be most effective for my needs.
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Old 03-11-2012, 18:43   #2
Dusty
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I have Hornady 90 grain Zombie Max in my LCP.

It's just a pocket "break contact" weapon, but it would prolly knock somebody out if you hit 'em in the head.
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Old 03-11-2012, 19:26   #3
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The most important thing is that the gun reliably feed and fire the rounds you select.

Better off with the FMJs and 100% reliability than the world's best JHPs and a malfunction every other round. The Colt Government .380s are not the most reliable pistols in the world and most will not feed JHPs reliably. If you cannot get at least a box or two of ammo through it without a malfunction, pick another round. You may be able to polish the ramp enough to get them to feed, but if you overdo it, you will leave an excessive amount of the case head unsupported and will risk blowing the gun up. If it comes right down to it, carry the FMJs and shoot till the threat is eliminated.

If it will feed them, any JHP from Federal, Winchester, Remington, etc. should be roughly the same performance. Pick the one that will run 100% reliably in your gun.

Note, the .380 is the minimum recommended caliber for a reason. It is more comfortable than the 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45ACP because it has less power and is less effective than those rounds. If you can put the rounds into the head of your opponent quicker than he can injure you, it is adequate. If not, it will probably take more rounds per target to put one down.

If you can hit what you are shooting at with something larger, I would opt for a larger caliber weapon, unless you are trying to carry concealed.

I carry a .380 when it is difficult to conceal a .40 or a .45. If I can carry a larger weapon, I do.

Best of luck.

TR
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Old 03-12-2012, 00:26   #4
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Golden Saber

I bought my wife the S&W bodyguard .380 and I've fed a hundred or so rounds of Remington Golden Saber through it without any problems. They were also pretty accurate as far as .380's go. However, I also have a Colt 1911 that is somewhat testy with certain ammo at times, so definitely run enough of whatever rounds you decide to use through the weapon to be comfortable that it won't cause it to malfunction. Nothing like pulling the trigger and nothing happening. I don't like that at the range let alone in a real situation.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:43   #5
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I bought my wife the S&W bodyguard .380 and I've fed a hundred or so rounds of Remington Golden Saber through it without any problems. They were also pretty accurate as far as .380's go. However, I also have a Colt 1911 that is somewhat testy with certain ammo at times, so definitely run enough of whatever rounds you decide to use through the weapon to be comfortable that it won't cause it to malfunction. Nothing like pulling the trigger and nothing happening. I don't like that at the range let alone in a real situation.
I put many, many rounds of cheap hardball through that LCP before I fired a couple boxes of Hornady Zombie Max, and I've never had any type of failure. Same with my wife's LC9; this after so many reports of the lack of quality dependability in Ruger pistols; they're both accurate, to boot.

Each pistol has its own job and its own idiosyncracies, as does each bullet. As The Reaper says, your main goal is for the weapon to function when you need it; which is why I prefer HK over any brand of 1911 to shoot .45 ACP.

The .380 is a weak round, but if you can depend on your pistol to deliver it, it will do a good job within the capabilities of the round.

I suggest doing your own penetration tests, pick the round that always pops and cycles your slide, and be comfortable with your Colt. There are plenty of gunsmiths who are great at fixing Colts, because they get so much practice.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:02   #6
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Nothing like pulling the trigger and nothing happening. I don't like that at the range let alone in a real situation.
What TR said. MOO, many even picking one of the popular 9mm platforms would do well to validate the functionality while also doing some really explosive or other dynamic movement. (I've had to work with alot of "studs" who limp-wristed a Glock when shooting one-handed.) So-called weak-side (should you have one?) and/or one-handed or close-in to body testing should be done. You can make alot of rounds work when you're making that picture-perfect platform for the gun (and camera) at the range, less stable when the SHTF and you have to move. Camming action or straight blow-back, if you're gonna bet your life on it, test the hell out of it. And imo that's more than running a couple of boxes of vanilla FMJ from a static position & calling it good.

You've got to know.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:17   #7
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if you're gonna bet your life on it, test the hell out of it. And imo that's more than running a couple of boxes of vanilla FMJ from a static position & calling it good.

You've got to know.
Exactly.

If you're shooting at somebody, it's likely that they're trying to return the favor.
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:54   #8
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WIN 95 gr JHP

Thanks for all the feedback, I got a box of WIN JHP's and did a little backyard shooting the other day. The rounds all cycled perfectly which did not surprise me as they are very much round nosed like the FMJ rounds. From 20' both FMJ and JHP's penetrated a pine 2X4 but not a 2- 2X4's. Not being any sort of authority on ammunition I am surmising that the JHP's create more damage to human flesh than to a 2X4. Its strictly for self defense in the home.
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:35   #9
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Thanks for all the feedback, I got a box of WIN JHP's and did a little backyard shooting the other day. The rounds all cycled perfectly which did not surprise me as they are very much round nosed like the FMJ rounds. From 20' both FMJ and JHP's penetrated a pine 2X4 but not a 2- 2X4's. Not being any sort of authority on ammunition I am surmising that the JHP's create more damage to human flesh than to a 2X4. Its strictly for self defense in the home.
Terminal ballistics discussion follows. Remember that there are exceptions to every rule, and that an elephant has been killed with a .22 Short, so anything can happen.

Normally, given the same velocities and bullet weights, expansion of a bullet is a direct opposite of penetration. Increased expansion reduces penetration.

Most people assume that pushing an expanding bullet faster (more velocity) means more penetration and slowing it down means less. That is incorrect. Maximum penetration is normally from a FMJ or an unexpanded bullet.

Expanding bullets (jacketed hollow points, jacketed soft points, etc.) are designed and constructed to function within a specific velocity range of a few hundred fps and at relatively short ranges. For most pistol bullets, that is going to be between 700 and 1400 fps, with the largest portion (minus 9mm and magnums) being subsonic. Most handgun bullets are not fast enough to create much temporary cavitation.

If you push an expanding bullet faster than it is designed to function, you get less penetration and more expansion or fragmentation. If it is slower than designed for (for example, a shorter barrel or longer range to the target), the bullet may penetrate deeper and not expand as much, if at all.

A bullet needs to penetrate deeply enough to reach vital organs and damage them. Expansion, as with a hollow point or soft point, creates a larger permanent wound channel as the bullet gets physically larger and crushes more tissue. Most organs are only a couple of inches from the surface, if you are shooting the side closest to the surface. Unfortunately, live targets move and do not always present themselves optimally for your shooting. You may have an angled shot or a shot through an extremity that requires 12" - 14" to reach vital organs like the heart, lungs, large vascular structures, etc. Excessive penetration is not normally a good thing, in that you do not want your bullet to penetrate a target and continue winging its way downrange looking for additional targets of opportunity like family, friends, innocent bystanders, etc. For those reasons, reliability is primary, penetration is secondary (up to the 14" mark or so), and expansion is tertiary.

Bullets that come apart too soon are creating shallow surface wounds that may not be incapacitating or even fatal. Bullets (especially small ones) that penetrate too deeply without expanding or fragmenting may require several good hits to cause enough damage to incapacitate the target. Everything is a tradeoff.

Wounds that cause an armed assailant to expire after the fight is over may represent a Pyrrhic victory, but will be scant consolation if the target is not incapacitated before inflicting serious injury to yourself or those you are trying to protect.

The requirement to simultaneously penetrate and produce controlled expansion has led to bonded bullets, which allow for the jacket to remain attached to the core of the bullet after expansion and continue to penetrate together. The longer the expanding bullet retains its jacket, the further it will penetrate due to the jacket being harder and less subject to deformation than its lead core. Shooting through cars, glass, light construction, heavy clothing, etc. drove this development. The technology is not fully mature, and some bonded bullets may be less likely to expand than non-bonded bullets, but they shoudl penetrate better.

If the handgun rounds feed and function 100% of the time in your weapon, and penetrate adequately, the one that expands to the maximum diameter and destroys the most tissue is the better one.

Wood is a poor substitute for tissue in ballistic testing, thought it has been used in the past for penetration testing. The easiest way to test penetration and expansion at home is to either get some meat, like a large roast, or shoot into water, like gallon jugs or zip-locs if you want to see expansion in a perfect world (no bones, tendons, etc.) Drape it with clothing if you want to simulate the real world performance somewhat better. I would expect a .380 ACP JHP to stop in a few gallons of water, but I would set up five or six just to be safe, and have a good backstop to be sure. You can measure the penetration and the expansion, and weigh it to determine the retained weight when expended.

A .380 ACP is a compromise and has difficulty making the penetration requirement even in FMJ form. Robbing energy to create expansion with a JHP cuts that even further. The .380 is not necessarily a bad choice, on occasion, I carry a .380. You just have to understand that it is a compromise fight stopper and it is up to you to put the bullets where they count, and possibly more of them to achieve rapid incapacitation.

Not preaching here, just trying to explain how bullets work. There are better and longer explanations elsewhere, if you would like to know more.

TR
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Old 03-18-2012, 14:44   #10
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Terminal ballistics discussion follows.
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Sir, you need to write a book. I've learned more about ballistics on PS.com than I did in my LE Academy.
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