03-31-2004, 10:35
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#16
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Williamston, SC
Posts: 2,018
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Quite correct TR. I was trying to justify Solid's one year statement. Me thinks I'll go back and edit.
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QRQ 30 is offline
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03-31-2004, 14:08
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#17
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 995
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My statement was way off due to poor date retention. How did Air Mobile warfare change the concepts of Guerrilla Warfare and counter GW? I think I have some idea, but find this subject interesting as it seem that modern wars often involve GW or UW in some way.
Thank you,
Solid
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Solid is offline
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03-31-2004, 14:20
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#18
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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How do you think it changed it?
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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03-31-2004, 16:12
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#19
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 995
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My understanding, limited because all I've read is Che:
Che seems to envision enemy advances into G territory as a salient extending from non-G territory. The salient (specifically vanguard forces) must directly overcome numerous ambushes and fixed-position defences, along with flanking maneuvers. Air Mobile warfare allows the enemy to drop into G territory, strike, and go, or sustain their presence using helo resupply. This ability could have been obtained through the use of paratroopers, but 'ideal' G territory is rugged enough to prevent parachute insertion. However, helicopters using various methods can insert soldiers into more diverse terrain.
The enemy ability to strike anywhere within G territory denies the Gs a solid base of resupply or operations, which is considered key in Che's version of GW. An air defence system, as in Vietnam, may limit helicopter insertions, but SOG demonstrated that this made insertion more difficult, but not impossible.
Am I on the right track?
Thank you,
Solid
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Solid is offline
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03-31-2004, 16:20
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#20
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central TX
Posts: 1,390
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This ability could have been obtained through the use of paratroopers, but 'ideal' G territory is rugged enough to prevent parachute insertion.
SOG did insert a few teams by HALO
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Air.177 is offline
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03-31-2004, 16:33
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#21
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Williamston, SC
Posts: 2,018
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Maybe that's why Che met his demise. Chairman Mao saw things differently. The insurgent has to win the hearts and minds of the people. It sounds trite but came from Mao. Insurgents without popular support were, in his words: "As fish out of water." There was no "G territory". That was the major problem in RVN. Where was the "G territory"? Che tried to start insurgencies throughout Latin America but by and large failed.
FTIW: I attended an awards ceremony for two SF members of the 8th SFGA who participated in the demise of Che. They hounded him for ten years just as we will OBL until his demise.
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QRQ 30 is offline
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03-31-2004, 16:34
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#22
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 995
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My understanding was that these insertions were not made into heavily jungled areas, instead nearer the Cambodian coast. I understand, however, that there are parachute insertion techniques for jungle insertion through canopies (developed by the SAS in Borneo, I believe). I don't think that these techniques work for large numbers of people, certainly not the number that could be inserted via helo.
Solid
EDITED TO ADD:
QRQ my understanding of Che is that he too fostered the idea of winning hearts and minds, and that his 'g territory' developed out of this. Having not read Mao, I am not sure about how this compares. As far as I know, however, didn't Mao advocate the creation of "G territory" during the 'defensive' period of insurgency?
Does RVN refer specifically to the S. Vietnam area of operations, or include Cambodia, N. Vietnam, and Laos?
Last edited by Solid; 03-31-2004 at 16:40.
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Solid is offline
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03-31-2004, 16:52
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#23
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Williamston, SC
Posts: 2,018
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Solid: About all I can say about that is WRONG!!! I bvelieve the MMF may have made one drop. or two.
As for rough terrain jumping I taught it in Panama - enough said.
People in the puzzle palace were enamoured with HALO -- not the people who were to do it. They insisted on pushing HALO re-supply onm my team but I prevailed. I have a picture of a practice HALO which turned out to be HANO.
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QRQ 30 is offline
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03-31-2004, 17:02
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#24
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 995
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If I've understood correctly, MFF or para-insertion in general is too risky for mass-insertion and resupply, but is pushed by the government?
Would this mean that I'm right in saying that airborne insertions in general don't threaten 'g territory' significantly?
Thank you,
Solid
Eternal blue skies and fair winds for those who died in that jump.
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03-31-2004, 17:39
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#25
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Williamston, SC
Posts: 2,018
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I think I'll cut this threan now.
It wasn't too dangerous. IMO it wasn't tactically feasible. A recon team needs to be close together not scattered. When the Mike Force jumped they were daisy chained together.
By puzzle palace I mean various S-3/G-3 offices above the team level. To them HALO was a toy. To us it was a tool and there were better tools available. My team was airborne qualified and prepared for a deep insertion. However we rode in. We finally got our resupplies via low level drop at night. We didn't use chutes, water bladders did the trick.
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QRQ 30 is offline
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03-31-2004, 17:51
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#26
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 995
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QRQ- Thank you for the clarification.
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Solid is offline
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