Go Back   Professional Soldiers ® > The Pipeline (Special Forces Training) > 18C

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-24-2015, 08:06   #1
MtnGoat
Quiet Professional
 
MtnGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
Army to increase the number of Sapper courses

I have always thought this is a good course to attend.

So the war(s) are going away, yet just NOW DA and Ft Wood is looking to increase their numbers. Hummmm

http://www.armytimes.com/story/milit...ober/30569755/
__________________
"Berg Heil"

History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."

COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
MtnGoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2015, 08:41   #2
Box
Quiet Professional
 
Box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 5,746
maybe it is to accommodate the amount of women that are prepping for ranger school...
__________________
Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.

"Make sure your own mask is secure before assisting others"
-Airplane Safety Briefing
Box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2015, 10:51   #3
Razor
Quiet Professional
 
Razor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,509
More slots, but still closed to all but Engineer MOS's, because clearly no other MOS could benefit from the skills taught.

Maybe Ranger School should revert to its late 90's policy of only allowing combat arms branches to attend.
Razor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2015, 13:59   #4
doc22584
Quiet Professional
 
doc22584's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
More slots, but still closed to all but Engineer MOS's, because clearly no other MOS could benefit from the skills taught.

Maybe Ranger School should revert to its late 90's policy of only allowing combat arms branches to attend.

My intel is old, but I went to Sapper School as an 18E in late 2010. the eighty deuce didn't have any space for me in their pre-ranger course so I went to Sapper School instead.
doc22584 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2015, 17:20   #5
abc_123
Quiet Professional
 
abc_123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 2,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy L-bach View Post
maybe it is to accommodate the amount of women that are prepping for ranger school...

... or to give women a bit easier path to get a tab.
__________________
The Main Thing is to keep the Main Thing the Main Thing
abc_123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2015, 19:38   #6
Razor
Quiet Professional
 
Razor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,509
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc22584 View Post
My intel is old, but I went to Sapper School as an 18E in late 2010. the eighty deuce didn't have any space for me in their pre-ranger course so I went to Sapper School instead.
You're likely among the last year or two to do so, brother. From the bottom of the Army Times article:

"To better meet the needs of the engineer regiment, the Sapper Leader Course is also now closed to other military occupational specialties, Wittmeyer said.

“We’re falling short, so right now the focus is to get those [additional skill identifier]-focused slots filled,” he said. “We can’t give away the slots that 12Bs need to fill.”

The school could be opened to other MOSs in the future, he said. In the meantime, soldiers from the infantry or Special Forces MOSs can apply for a waiver to attend the course.

Students who graduate from the course, which has been open to female soldiers since 1999, earn the coveted Sapper tab."
Razor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 12:10   #7
tom kelly
Quiet Professional
 
tom kelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Philadelphia,Pa.
Posts: 1,474
THE SAPPER TAB?

I have a copy of the 2013 Academic Handbook for the U S ARMY JFK SPECIAL WARFARE CENTER AND SCHOOL and on page 40 of the course catalog titled SPECIAL FORCES > Advanced Skills The Special Forces Sniper Course (SFSC) course number 2E-F67/011-ASIW3. The length of this course is 8 weeks. ALSO offered is THE Special Forces Advanced Reconnaissance Target Analysis Exploitation Techniques Course number 2-E-F133/011-F46. This course is 8 weeks duration also. Would successful completion of both courses allow the student to be awarded the Sapper Tab? Tom Kelly
__________________
EVERYBODY WANTS TO GO TO HEAVEN: BUT, NOBODY WANTS TO DIE.
tom kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 12:43   #8
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,779
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom kelly View Post
I have a copy of the 2013 Academic Handbook for the U S ARMY JFK SPECIAL WARFARE CENTER AND SCHOOL and on page 40 of the course catalog titled SPECIAL FORCES > Advanced Skills The Special Forces Sniper Course (SFSC) course number 2E-F67/011-ASIW3. The length of this course is 8 weeks. ALSO offered is THE Special Forces Advanced Reconnaissance Target Analysis Exploitation Techniques Course number 2-E-F133/011-F46. This course is 8 weeks duration also. Would successful completion of both courses allow the student to be awarded the Sapper Tab? Tom Kelly
No, why would they?

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2015, 07:17   #9
abc_123
Quiet Professional
 
abc_123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 2,292
I know...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie View Post
Women are already allowed in Sapper School.
I know. Institutional push to demonstrate that women are the same as men in all areas + more courses = more women with tabs

More women with tabs + targeted PAO coverage (can't say "PSYOPS" because we don't do that CONUS)= happy leadership

(the Ranger tab may take a bit more engineering, so this would be a quick win)

Maybe i'm cynical.
__________________
The Main Thing is to keep the Main Thing the Main Thing
abc_123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2015, 07:23   #10
MtnGoat
Quiet Professional
 
MtnGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
You're likely among the last year or two to do so, brother. From the bottom of the Army Times article:

"To better meet the needs of the engineer regiment, the Sapper Leader Course is also now closed to other military occupational specialties, Wittmeyer said.

“We’re falling short, so right now the focus is to get those [additional skill identifier]-focused slots filled,” he said. “We can’t give away the slots that 12Bs need to fill.”

The school could be opened to other MOSs in the future, he said. In the meantime, soldiers from the infantry or Special Forces MOSs can apply for a waiver to attend the course.

Students who graduate from the course, which has been open to female soldiers since 1999, earn the coveted Sapper tab."
What Ft Wood and Sapper School is doing is no different than when Ranger School closes off slots from Combat Support to Combat Arms to only 11 Series slots. They have done the same thing over the years too.

Ft Wood, Engineer Fort Leonard Wood's Maneuver Support Center of Excellence, "Engineer Center," had to open Sapper School up to women after DA forced them to open Platoon Leader Positions on the Combat Engineer Company Level Positions. If a Female was going to lead a 21B (12B) Combat Engineers Platoons and future Company Commanders, they had to, since Male Company Commander were excepted to be Sapper Tab Qualified. This was the first Social Engineering experiment within the Army, and in the Army's eyes it has WORKED.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom kelly View Post
I have a copy of the 2013 Academic Handbook for the U S ARMY JFK SPECIAL WARFARE CENTER AND SCHOOL and on page 40 of the course catalog titled SPECIAL FORCES > Advanced Skills The Special Forces Sniper Course (SFSC) course number 2E-F67/011-ASIW3. The length of this course is 8 weeks. ALSO offered is THE Special Forces Advanced Reconnaissance Target Analysis Exploitation Techniques Course number 2-E-F133/011-F46. This course is 8 weeks duration also. Would successful completion of both courses allow the student to be awarded the Sapper Tab? Tom Kelly
No it would be like asking, "Would successful completion of both courses allow the student to be awarded the Ranger Tab?"
__________________
"Berg Heil"

History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."

COLONEL BULL SIMONS

Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
MtnGoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2015, 08:35   #11
MR2
Quiet Professional
 
MR2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 3,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom kelly View Post
I have a copy of the 2013 Academic Handbook for the U S ARMY JFK SPECIAL WARFARE CENTER AND SCHOOL and on page 40 of the course catalog titled SPECIAL FORCES > Advanced Skills The Special Forces Sniper Course (SFSC) course number 2E-F67/011-ASIW3. The length of this course is 8 weeks. ALSO offered is THE Special Forces Advanced Reconnaissance Target Analysis Exploitation Techniques Course number 2-E-F133/011-F46. This course is 8 weeks duration also. Would successful completion of both courses allow the student to be awarded the Sapper Tab? Tom Kelly
Sapper Tab? No. Sniper Tab? Maybe.

How about a Warrior Cop Tab? CyberWar Tab? Ate All My Peas Tab?
__________________
The two most powerful warriors are patience and time - Leo Tolstoy

It's Never Crowded Along the Extra Mile - Wayne Dyer


WOKE = Willfully Overlooking Known Evil
MR2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2015, 08:57   #12
SF_BHT
Quiet Professional
 
SF_BHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sneaking back and forth across the Border
Posts: 6,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR2 View Post
Sapper Tab? No. Sniper Tab? Maybe.

How about a Warrior Cop Tab? CyberWar Tab? Ate All My Peas Tab?
Let's just take away all the tabs. Let your performance prove that you can do the task. Back to full flash, and have guys wear nothing but U.S. army, name tape and unit insignia. We don't need a stinking tab and badges to prove who we are.
SF_BHT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 20:36   #13
5thgrp"C"
Quiet Professional
 
5thgrp"C"'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Savannah
Posts: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SF_BHT View Post
Let's just take away all the tabs. Let your performance prove that you can do the task. Back to full flash, and have guys wear nothing but U.S. army, name tape and unit insignia. We don't need a stinking tab and badges to prove who we are.
What would we do with all that spare velcro?
__________________
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. D. Eisenhower
5thgrp"C" is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 14:14.



Copyright 2004-2022 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies