Why You Should Think Like A Green Beret Instead Of A Doomsday Prepper

[Beef]

Others sell tools, also made in China can be found as well, but they are of poor quality.

Some offer their services and repair stuff or offer work as handyman.

You would be amazed of the junk that these guys manage to fix: TVs, CD players, Power tools, etc. They even manage to solder the small integrated circuits boards sometimes. Give one of these guys a screw driver and a bar of chocolate and he will fix a nuclear submarine.

After food and clothes, the 3rd most popular item has to be CDs and DVDs, movies, music, play station 2 and Xbox games, programs, it all ends up there just one or two days after the official release in USA. Seems that they have a guy hidden under Bill Gate’s desk or something.

Anyway, almost everything can be found there, and if you want, you can ask around, talk to the right guy and buy illegal stuff like drugs or black market guns and ammo. The quality of the drugs is questionable, of course, and a lot of addicts die from the mixtures these guys sell. Guns are mostly FM High Powers, Surplus 1911s and Colt .45s, Sistemas, and old Colt Detective revolvers in 38 special that found their way from police and military armories into the black market. Condition isn’t very good but if you have money you’ll be amazed of what you can end up with. Everything that is used by the military and police, including SMGs a, Browning 50 BMG Machine guns, and even frag grenades, is available in the black market, if the customer has the amount of money and a little patience, of course. The big guns may take a while, but the handguns and grenades are readily available.

[Beef]

Lessons from Argentina's economic collapse
Part Two

GOLD:

Someone hit me in the head please because I messed up about the gold issue.

Everyone wants to buy gold! "I buy gold. Pay cash" signs are everywhere, even on TV! I can't believe I'm that silly!

I just didn't relate it to what I read here because they deal with junk gold, like jewelry, either stolen or sold because they needed the money, not the gold coins that you guys talk about. No one pays for the true value of the stuff, so big WARNING! Sign on people that are buying gold coins.

Since it is impossible to determine the true mineral percentage of gold, small shops and dealers will pay for it as regular jewelry gold.

What I would do if I were you: Besides gold coins, buy a lot of small gold rings and other jewelry. They should be less expensive than gold coins, and if the SHTF bad, you'll not be losing money, selling premium quality gold coins for the price of junk gold. If I could travel back in time, I'd buy a small bag worth of gold rings.

Small time thieves will snatch gold chains right out of your neck and sell them at these small dealers found everywhere. This is VERY common at train stations, subways and other crowded areas.

So, my advice, if you are preparing for a small economical crisis, gold coins make sense. You will keep the value of the stuff and be able to sell it for its actual cost to gold dealers or maybe other survivalists that know the true value of the item.

In my case, gold coins would have been an excellent investment, saving me from loosing money when the local economy crashed. Even though things are bad, I can go to a bank down town and get paid for what a gold coin is truly worth, same goes for pure silver. But where I live, in my local are small time dealers will only pay you the value of junk gold, no matter what kind of gold you have. So, I'd have to say that if TSHTF bad, gold jewelry is a better trade item than gold coins.

GUNS, AMMO AND OTHER GEAR:

After TSHTF in 2001, only the most narrow minded, brain washed, butterfly IQ level idiots believed that the police would protect them from the crime wave that followed the collapse of our economy.

A lot of people that could have been considered antigun before, ran to the gun shops, seeking advise on how to defend themselves and their families. They would buy a 38 revolver, a box of ammo, and leave it in the closet, probably believing that it would magically protect them from intruders.

Oh, maybe you don't think that firearms are really necessary or your beliefs do not allow you to buy a tool designed to kill people. So you probably ask yourself, is a gun really necessary when TSHTF? Will it truly make a difference?

Having gone through a shtf scenario myself, total economical collapse in the year 2001, and still dealing with the consequences, 5 years later, I feel I can answer that question.

YES, you need a gun, pepper spray, a machete, a battle axe, club with a rusty nail sticking out of it, or whatever weapon you can get hold of.

A LOT has been written on survival weapons. Everyone that is into armed survival has his or her own idea of the ideal gun battery. Some more oriented to a hunting point of view, others only as self defense means and others consider a little of both, and look for general purpose weapons.

Talking about guns, there is one special subject I want to rectify, and it's the point on what's the primary weapon for the survivalist, specially a urban survivalist that has to function in a society, yes, even after the SHTF.

People, if you are interested in real world SHTF situation, and you want to prepared for the real deal, then understand that this isn't black or white.

You wake up one day and listen on the radio that the economy collapsed and that the stock market closed indefinitely.

CRIME AND INSECURITY:

Even though crime has always been an issue in South America, my country was quite the exception. It was dangerous, yes but nothing like after the 2001 economical crisis. One used to be able to let kids play on the sidewalk, or walk back home from a party, a few blocks, and be somewhat safe. This all changed now. There are no kids playing on the sidewalks anymore. I should emphasize this a little more. There are absolutely NO kids playing on the sidewalks at all, at any time of the day. Maybe a kid rides his bike a few meters on the sidewalk, but always under the supervision of an adult. A kid riding a bike on his own will get that bike stolen in no time, probably get hurt in the process, therefore no responsible parent leaves a kid alone on the street. Teenagers present a greater problem. You can't keep a 15 or 16 year old inside a house all day long, and even though they are big enough to go out on their own, when the sun goes down things get much worse.

This is when parents organize themselves; either taking them to someone's house or to a club and picking them up at a certain time. Taxis and remises are used sometimes , but there have been lots of cases of girls getting raped, so no parent worth a buck leaves his son or daughter in hands of a stranger. After years of living like this, almost everyone learned to be careful; sometimes they had to learn the hard way. Practically no one leaves a door or window opened or unlocked. Nor do they hang out in front of the house talking to friends. A bad guy might just see you there, like a sitting duck, pull a gun on you and take you inside your house.

There are no "bandit's law" anymore. One used to hear people talk about "You shouldn't resist a robbery, give them what they want and they'll go away". That holds true no more. These guys are under the influence of drugs, epoxy glue, or just hate your guts so much, because you have a better life than they ever dreamed of, because they were abused since the day they were born, that they will hurt and humiliate you as much as they can. Letting a criminal inside you house almost guaranties you that he will rape/beat/ torture and abuse whoever they find inside.

I personally drew a line a few years ago and decided, after one long, serious conversation with my wife; that no one would be allowed inside the house, no matter what. We figured that there are worse things than death. Having decided that, I make sure I always have a weapon on me. They'll have to pay dearly for my life, plus interests.

By far, the most dangerous moment of the day, is when I (or my wife) leave/enter my house. A solid, secure house cannot be broken in easily, so criminals wait until you are standing on front of the door with the keys on your hand to jump on you. This is why we are extra alert when approaching our house, look all around us and if we see anything strange, keep walking around the block or keep on driving. No door is ever opened when there is a strange person around. Whenever someone knocks on our door (and we don't know him/her), they are answered from a second story window. Criminals sometimes disguise as electric company guys or something like that, saying that they have to fix something. NO! If there is something to be fixed they can fix it on the sidewalk. Anything inside your house is your responsibility and the company is not going to fix it for you. Either way, it's always better to play it safe, Better to be rude than dead.

On the car/driving issue, that calls for an entire post dedicated to SHTF driving. For now I'll just say that windows and doors have to be closed at all times, a weapon must be within arms reach, and that stop signs and traffic lights have a hole new meaning once TSHTF. If your country ever falls as mine did, you'll remember me whenever you see a traffic light. You never stop at a red lights or stop sign unless there is traffic, especially at night.

At first, police would write you a ticket for not stopping at a red light if they saw you (another way of saying that they will ask for a bribe if they see you pass a red light), but after a few months they realized that nothing could be done, people would rather risk a ticket than risking their lives, so they decided to turn traffic lights to permanent yellow at night, after 8 or 9 PM. This is, of course, very dangerous. Night car accidents are both frequent and brutal since sometimes both cars hit each other at full speed.

MissinLink asked some good questions that might interest others as well, and since we are on the security issue, here they are:

"Do the invaders of homes in the country just drive up in cars or trucks? Do they hide and sneak up? How do these home invaders attack a home in the country? A similar question could be asked for homes in the city."

Sometimes they just drive up to where you are working, if you are far away from the home, but most of the time they sneak up on you. Criminals are not stupid, and they will spend days checking the place and specially YOUR ROUTINE. For example, if they see that you lock the gate at night, as most do, they will wait for you behind a tree until you are close. This is done a lot. Dogs are the best alarm you can find, and criminals know that. They will poison them with pills when you go to sleep and attack the place in the middle of the night. I know of many that had their dogs killed. If they think that security is tight, they will just hide near the main gate, and wait for you to leave or return. When you stop at the gate and must get out of the truck to open/close the main gate, they attack. I'd say that the most frequent kind of attack is attacking by surprise when you enter/leave your home.

"

[Beef]

Most common times of attack? Day night evening morning? I understand occur when coming or going from ones home, etc."

7 am, 9 am, 1pm 7pm, all are common times for attacks. There is no "safe" hour of the day. Night is particularly dangerous. Maybe attacks during the day are faster, they want to get some money or jewelry and leave fast, while at night they might stay inside more time, maybe till the next day. But there are no fixed patterns. If I could give one advice concerning SHTF security, it would be: Eyes and ears wide open when you enter/leave your home. If possible, keep a gun on your hand when doing either one. If something looks, even "feels strange, then go around the block and check again, carefully. If you see them still there, either call the police (if still available) or get help. If you approach the house with a large number of people they will leave. One time, I saw a couple of strange looking guys at my door. I went round the block and saw them still there. I started flashing the car lights and the horn and they left. I had a gun with me, though, so be careful when trying this. Also, remember that a car is one heavy, powerful piece of machinery. I know a guy that had one of those big chrome-tube bumpers installed on his truck, especially for hitting those that were stupid enough to try and make him stop by standing in front of the car.

If I had a truck, I would do so myself. Though I would keep my mouth shut about it, as always. Just say that you think it looks cool or something. Every now and then someone tries to force me to stop my car by standing in front of it (I suppose there are still fools out there that get robbed this way), in the middle of the street. I just aim at them and accelerate at full speed. They always jump out of the way before I hit them. By the way, at first, doing this made me feel nervous, but can you believe that now it's just common driving, as normal as changing gears? I guess it's a little sad.

[Beef]

If anyone is interested, I will cut/paste the other parts. Otherwise, I don't want to clog up the thread with info that may be of little value to the forum members. I couldn't get the link to work either and it was cut and paste job, too. Maybe the "private" in the addresss.....?

[Peregrino]

Beef - You've got me interested enough that I'll fish around and try to find the article from another direction. For the interim don't worry about overloading the thread, we'll deal with it if it becomes an issue. (Interesting how much of your reportage dovetails with information provided in several of the "preparedness" threads we've got in other sub-forums.

[Beef]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

Beef - You've got me interested enough that I'll fish around and try to find the article from another direction. For the interim don't worry about overloading the thread, we'll deal with it if it becomes an issue. (Interesting how much of your reportage dovetails with information provided in several of the "preparedness" threads we've got in other sub-forums.

Yes, it does. This seems like a plausable account of Argentina's problems. I first read that a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, the reporter didn't access to this site and had to figure out and reinvent the wheel. This really validates a lot of the threads that i've read here. BTW:If Snaquebite posted the sound byte version, this is "War and Peace." LOL!

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Beef

If anyone is interested, I will cut/paste the other parts. Otherwise, I don't want to clog up the thread with info that may be of little value to the forum members. I couldn't get the link to work either and it was cut and paste job, too. Maybe the "private" in the addresss.....?

He posts online under the name "ferfal".

http://www.survival-spot.com/surviva...tina-collapse/

TR

[Beef]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

He posts online under the name "ferfal".

http://www.survival-spot.com/surviva...tina-collapse/

TR

Thanks, TR. I should have known you'd be familar with it. I will bookmark your link. It makes things a whole lot easier! And less space consuming....

[Sacamuelas]

Nice thread/link . Our "Be prepared" thread is proving to be invaluable information. Nice to see that the information has and still is being used when the SHTF.

[Barbarian]

He posts online under the name "ferfal".

http://www.survival-spot.com/surviva...tina-collapse/

TR

I sometimes listen to a podcast recorded by a man, by the name of Sam Coffman, who claims to be a former 18D (he may be, I don't know, yet.) Mr. Coffman runs a survival/primitive skills school near San Antonio, Texas.

Long story-short, in Episode 050 and 051 of his podcast "The Human Path," he has a discussion/interview with Fernando Ferfal Aguirre. I found it interesting. I believe Aguirre also had a survival book published, which I plan to look into.


For those who don't use Igadgets, the podcast can be found here:

http://thehumanpath.podbean.com/2011...nomy-collapse/

[badshot]

Originally Posted by fng13

I'm not sure how I would feel about having a guy watch my back who I just kicked in the nuts.

LOL!

Someone who thinks fast under pressure and wants to win is another view... And has a good sense of humor...

I'd follow ya ZD

[Team Sergeant]

I actually would not want to live near a "doomsday prepper" because if there were some sort of doomsday scenario all they're going to do is "draw fire". The only individuals with a wife and two kids on their own that are going to survive such doomsday scenario is currently living in the jungles of the Amazon or the mountains of Alaska.

You say you have an underground bunker and you have saved 3 years worth of food and water, you're living in a delusional reality. If more than one person was involved in building your "doomsday" bunker, keeping or thinking it is a secret is just plain stupid. Besides that how stupid do you think humans are, think we don't know what an air vent looks like or what it leads to? Unless you plan to live inside of NORRAD with its Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker, than you better have a layered minefield surrounding your property/bunker.

The only way anyone is going to survive a doomsday scenario is to be surrounded by hundreds of like minded individuals. If you live in the big cities that laud their diverseness you're screwed. And unless you're " Snake Plissken " if it comes down to survival of the fittest your odds of say surviving in NYC, LA or Chicago just took a nosedive.

Those that will survive already live among like minded individuals, the rural communities will do fine and many of those country boys can shoot well enough to defend their own, especially against city slickers. And you're not going to find any rural boys that use the "gangster hold" when engaging adversaries. (Remember what happened during hurricane Katrina, folks in the rural areas held their own while the city of New Orleans fell into complete chaos, chew on that for a while.)

I've seen a couple of episodes of the "Doomsday Preppers" and thought they were quite "entertaining". All of them had me laughing, especially when it came to the "defense" of their home and family. The most entertaining part of the show was the preppers getting a "report card" from other equally delusional preppers.

I'm all about being prepared and having a few weeks of extra food and water is a great idea, but thinking you can hold out against the "zombie apocalypse" alone is just plain stupid.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

The only way anyone is going to survive a doomsday scenario is to be surrounded by hundreds of like minded individuals.
I'm all about being prepared and having a few weeks of extra food and water is a great idea, but thinking you can hold out against the "zombie apocalypse" alone is just plain stupid.

Concur.

I'm not sure what a "doomsday" scenario is, but we've planned for what I expect could happen should the economic and electronic infrastructure disintegrate.

All we did was acquire a state of self-sustainment that our "neighbors" (approximately 4 families per square mile) had attained, in a manner of capability handed down generation to generation.

Everybody is well armed, has their own water and food-producing capabilities, and in most cases can shoot the eye out of a gnat.

The difference between us out here in the campo and the people in the cities is that out here, neighbors actually give a shit about each other to the point of putting the other guy first.

I actually feel sorry for anybody who lives in the city and deludes himself into thinking he's got his "zombie" bases covered.

[badshot]

Originally Posted by Dusty

Concur.

I'm not sure what a "doomsday" scenario is, but we've planned for what I expect could happen should the economic and electronic infrastructure disintegrate.

All we did was acquire a state of self-sustainment that our "neighbors" (approximately 4 families per square mile) had attained, in a manner of capability handed down generation to generation.

Everybody is well armed, has their own water and food-producing capabilities, and in most cases can shoot the eye out of a gnat.

The difference between us out here in the campo and the people in the cities is that out here, neighbors actually give a shit about each other to the point of putting the other guy first.

I actually feel sorry for anybody who lives in the city and deludes himself into thinking he's got his "zombie" bases covered.

Sounds like true Americans to me.

I enjoy the quiet brought about by no power

[The Reaper]

Good challenge.

Broadsword, have you spent much time in the woods surviving? It isn't like Gilligan's Island.

The first European settlers came to this country with a lot more resources and experience than your group has, and the first colonies died out. Many returned home, if they could. The inexperience of the party will doom most, if not all. Knowledge is not experience. The native Americans were adapted to this terrain, they did subsistence farming and hunting, most migrated depending on the season and resources. Trade was important. There were few domestic livestock. There were no metal tools to speak of, or use of metal beyond gold and other low melting point metals. Life expectancy was maybe 35 years old (for men).

IMHO, there is not enough time to do much beyond making fire and basic tools and gathering edible flora and fauna before winter comes. Your chances would be much better with at least a year's supply of rations, steel tools, weapons, gunpowder, cast iron cookware, cloth, horses, goats and chickens, and a few other necessities. Shelters will be very primitive like lean tos and maybe hogans, and will likely not consist of permanent structures for several years. You cannot boil sufficient quantities of water (50 gallons per day, minimum, for your party) without more technology (metal pots). Bricks and pottery require special clays not found everywhere. You are not likely to do much ironworking or steel making over a wood fire. Much of what you are planning to do requires significant fires. Once you have burned all of the wood in your immediate area, where do you get more and get it to your site? Cordage will be more necessary and important than you think. You will not be able to make paper, glass, or steel. Many people will die without modern medical care. Minor illnesses and injuries will kill people. Primitive childbirth is a very dangerous process for both the mother and the child. Without replacements or modern laundering, your clothing will wear out quickly, and may or may not make it till the first winter. Killing large animals for their fur is also more difficult (and hazardous) than you might imagine.

I would quickly recon the local area and map it. It is important to learn the local language and I would probably move closer to the water, consider saltmaking, fishing, ferrying, charcoal making, cooperage, and maybe trading salt and other items, and medical treatment with modern anatomical and medical knowledge to gather items my people needed. If I had steel tools, I would think about a timber, lumber, and woodworking operation upstream. I would be looking for horses and other domesticated animals, metals, coal, tools, raw resources, etc., and once I was self-sufficient, females of childbearing age, since you will lose most of the ones in your original party and you need the genetic diversity.

If you had more men and weapons, and inferior neighbors, raiding might be a viable alternative. Hey, it worked for Cortez.

I predict at least 50% die off in the first 12 months, and less than 20% likelihood of long-term survival, barring more modern resources or benevolent intervention.

Good luck.

TR