America's Second Civil War

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

All very good and salient points but, I believe they have already over stepped their "small increments" approach this past year. This election will never be seen as legitimate by the moderate middle and the alt-right. The left believe they did nothing wrong and nothing illegal happened, that Biden was rightfully elected by a majority and the media is promoting a major front that there is a clear winner and a bad (sore) loser. The far left is promoting a stereotype that will blow open the caste system in America and when people finally see what's happening beyond their city, beyond their county borders, beyond Fox News...they are going to be rightfully upset with accepting the results this time and moving on. Trump opened their eyes. A president for the first time in a very long time came to their home town and spoke to them; he spoke to them every single day unlike any president in recent history or history ever. He told them for four years, "yes Virginia, there is a deep state, it is real, and they will cheat, lie and steal to take what is rightfully yours and give it away to people who didn't ever do anything for it, they will sell your livelihood to a foreign power for pennies on the dollar and keep the change. This is what changed this time, this is why Trump is "loved by the people" when was the last time you ever heard that? (JFK?)

People right now (on both sides) are waiting patiently for the legal process to play out. Regardless of which way the SC comes down a large group of people are going to be pissed, pissed enough to possibly start a revolution.

At this point I don't see any other possible outcome. 2020 may have been the most unusual year in world history, but 2021 is going to be the "first" year of the next progressive step forward and I don't mean that as "progressives starting a new world order" but a course correction where past meets future and a cultural reckoning is finally brought out of the shadows and the pieces fall where they may.

When people finally see what COVID was and what COVID wasn't and they see how it was used by the left to control the population and take away and strip individual freedoms...ruin business and shutter main street, they are going to go ballistic and those people who propagandized this virus for personal and political gain aren't going to find a nice place to live, call home or retire to.

So they have to act fast "incremental" is not going to work.

JMOO

Concur with your observations that Trump did this nation the most valuable service of exposing the deep state. The level of corruption (or bad judgment - which are both very bad answers) lurking just below the surface of Washington DC institutions - for all to see - is astounding.

But, just think of the power of the corrupt media...we endured an FBI investigation and an impeachment trial on the flimsiest evidence (if you can call it that) and yet the media buried the corruption of Klinton and Biden as if nothing at all existed.

We can no longer underestimate the power of the corrupt media to unduly influence cultural shifts, elections, shutdowns, and wars (and even individual criminal charges) in America. We also know now that the media will now completely look the other way for one political party. Damn.

Moreover, the media can run interference for release of the truth. That is one BIG megaphone that they control.

You may well be on to something that events may force the left’s hand to go big...but, will their reach exceed their grasp...and will an over extension trigger other events? Will the right winning the Senate force the incremental strategy?

That is the conundrum we find ourselves in.

I do believe we must be ready for anything.

Appreciate your thoughts and our discussion.

[bubba]

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again.

Trump needs to go with one of his distinguishing features that got him elected in the first place.

YOU ARE FIRED!

1) Declare Martial Law using the National Guard

2) Fire the ENTIRE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT (ALL OF IT!)

3) Call the State Legislatures to send a delegation to a particular place to convene a Constitutional Convention (no amendments, an entire NEW Document that erases the entirety of Federal Law and Precedent)

4) Step aside and return to Private Life in the US v2.0

Anything short of this will only result in massive loss of life and damage to key infrastructure that will only slow the process to returning to our Republic.

Our founders did almost exactly this when they went to Philly to fix the Articles of Confederation in 1787.

“This is Leroy baby, shut-er Down!”

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by bubba

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again.

Trump needs to go with one of his distinguishing features that got him elected in the first place.

YOU ARE FIRED!

1) Declare Martial Law using the National Guard

2) Fire the ENTIRE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT (ALL OF IT!)

3) Call the State Legislatures to send a delegation to a particular place to convene a Constitutional Convention (no amendments, an entire NEW Document that erases the entirety of Federal Law and Precedent)

4) Step aside and return to Private Life in the US v2.0

Anything short of this will only result in massive loss of life and damage to key infrastructure that will only slow the process to returning to our Republic.

Our founders did almost exactly this when they went to Philly to fix the Articles of Confederation in 1787.

“This is Leroy baby, shut-er Down!”

Fascinating ideas.

I do not believe however that our Constitution is currently flawed - and thus the stakes IMHO are just too high to risk exposing our Constitution and the hard fought freedoms it does protect to the machinations of special interests with billion-dollar budgets. But, I could be wrong.

However, sharpening focus on that part of DC that is undeniably flawed - the deep state - would seem to be less risky and more aligned with the majority of citizens.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by bubba

3) Call the State Legislatures to send a delegation to a particular place to convene a Constitutional Convention (no amendments, an entire NEW Document that erases the entirety of Federal Law and Precedent)

Who exactly would you trust to do that?

I don't see a path that doesn't lead to Civil War. Biden wins: veterans who fought for freedom for other nations will rise up. Trump wins: the radical Antifa and BLM crowd will increase their riots and attacks. Your proposal: Both sides rise up. The best scenario is that Trump wins, the Left goes nuts, and the veterans and other American patriots counter them in organized counter attacks.

Remember, this is almost certainly China supported. Perhaps every Communist country is involved.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Christmas Day 2020!

But why the NG instead of AD? It would seem to me that AD "Combat Arms" would be more loyal to Trump than many weekend warrior types that needed a job or career path. (That's not meant to be a dig on the NG only that units like the 82, 101 and Ranger Batts are standing by and prepared on moments notice.)

A precursor could be the rollout and deployment of the COVID vaccine with massive fenced areas used as assembly points for the "usual suspects" to be contained (detained.) You don't even have to coerce the logistical folks to take the lead they will be all too happy to move and set up the camps and facilities for distribution.

[Sohei]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Christmas Day 2020...units like the 82, 101 and Ranger Batts are standing by and prepared on moments notice.)...

Don't forget about us Leatherneck Grunts, Brother....

[bubba]

Tony,

I agree with you on principle that our Constitution is just fine with only minor tweaks like a balanced budget and term limits.

The issue with it is NO ONE in government even acknowledges that it exists except in passing without any real understanding. Too often people say things like “that’s unconstitutional” and never cite the why. Then, when it’s plainly and expressly clear, they just make up some nonsense that would get you thrown out of a 3rd grade English class for putting it on paper or uttering it out loud.

The only way to revive the principles of Republican Governance by a limited government with enumerated powers is to get rid of the parchment and put it in MSWord. At the same time, you get rid of the BS that the current courts use to pervert it (precedent).

As to who gets to sit at the table to re-write it, that is the States’ call. No different than the last time. Only big issue this time will be the fights similar to the Slavery issue last time, and those will figure themselves out.

Who wants to play the part of Jefferson?

As to the “Why” the National Guard..... THE ENTIRE FUCKING FEDERAL GOVERNMENT means the Active Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force......... ALL OF IT!

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Agoge2

Don't forget about us Leatherneck Grunts, Brother....

Mea Culpa!

Yes, send in the Marines and a few SEALs (Oh wait Obama seems to think they work for him...scratch that idea. )

And don't forget the Coast Guard! The rivers will need to be patrolled especially along the southern and northern borders for those fleeing propagandist from the media.

[RCummings]

I do see this as a much larger agenda. First I thought China now I think that the globalization agenda is being driven by the IMF. It is my thought that the current push is not silly assed wanabe commies, marxists or socialists but a much larger consolidation of power.

https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles...press-briefing

Respectfully,

Bob

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by bubba

Tony,

I agree with you on principle that our Constitution is just fine with only minor tweaks like a balanced budget and term limits.

The issue with it is NO ONE in government even acknowledges that it exists except in passing without any real understanding. To often people say things like “that’s unconstitutional” and never cite the why. Then, when it’s plainly and expressly clear, they just make up some nonsense that would get you thrown out of a 3rd grade English class for putting it on paper or uttering it out loud.

The only way to revive the principles of Republican Governance by a limited government with enumerated powers is to get rid of the parchment and put it in MSWord. At the same time, you get rid of the BS that the current courts use to pervert it (precedent).

As to who gets to sit at the table to re-write it, that is the States’ call. No different than the last time. Only big issue this time will be the fights similar to the Slavery issue last time, and those will figure themselves out.

Who wants to play the part of Jefferson?

Bubba...I feel your pain...but it’s our people and not our parchment that is our problem.

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

~John Adams

Our higher educational system has indoctrinated too many folks with concepts and ideas that are immoral, subversive and flat out wrong.

It’s our people, our values, our attention span...it’s not the parchment.

Hold onto that parchment - but we must fix our people.

JMOO

[Old Dog New Trick]

Whether or not this whole discussion is fiction or non-fiction is currently at best a valid discussion on the principles that many of us hold near and dear to our hearts. As has been mentioned here and elsewhere on this forum many if not all of us took an Oath at least once if not many times over in our career. More of us (knuckle draggers) know more about the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights than the usual class of graduates and upper classmen with a law degree and certainly more so than the Speaker of the House of Representatives does.

What has frustrated many of us as Bubba has pointed out is the courts interpretations are often wrong and/or for political grandstanding and posturing. This has caused massive distrust in the institutions that are suppose to find and show clarity and unity even when one side has to lose and one side is declared the winner.

If we do end up in a short term or protracted civil war it will be because those officials elected by us, appointed by them or anointed over us by money and power given through false pretenses all failed to do their job. If it comes down to it..."You had one job to do and you fu*ked it up!"

This goes especially true of the mass media, the pundits and the megalomaniacs that run big tech and social media.

Be careful what you ask for, you might just get it!

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by RCummings

I do see this as a much larger agenda. First I thought China now I think that the globalization agenda is being driven by the IMF. It is my thought that the current push is not silly assed wanabe commies, marxists or socialists but a much larger consolidation of power.

https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles...press-briefing

Respectfully,

Bob

Bob,

IMF was run by Christine Lagarde, IMF Managing Director. She is now head of the European Central Bank.

Lagarde is a big time Globalist and has reportedly moved her organization to focus more on social issues.

She just might be a much more refined Nancy Pelosi type.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I don't for one New York minute believe only the US electorate, the MSM and various governors/mayors are to blame for the state of our affairs. They are not even worthy of this discussion or spilling blood over.

Antifa is not a homegrown US group nor are they simply an offshoot of the WTO Anarchists, but they are largely led in the US by the same 1960/70s socialist and terrorist groups...it's the same old leaders from back then pulling the strings and funding the unrest. Same with BLM it's the Black Panthers and other Marxists that managed to survive in the basements of time waiting for their dear leader to give them the power to unleash their hate and divide us along ideological lines and the color of our skin.

We might have a civil war to resolve our differences at home, but there is a bigger picture taking place globally to build up socialism, communism and this idea of one world with one world power and that seat of power and control will not sit in Washington DC. That is why Joe Biden is the perfect empty vessel to usher in a socialist takeover of our financial and security apparatuses. The US Military will be powerless without civilian oversight to release the funding for fuel, ammo, and beans. What, do the Generals in the Pentagon think they have control over those strategic assets? Sadly they do not, our strategic reserve is vulnerable to inside actors with bad intentions and it is something that we "patriots" ought to consider securing before doing anything to upset the balance of power from Germany to China and Russia.

Reagan may have tore down the wall over idealism, and a satisfaction to beat the Russians, but all's he did was bankrupt two super powers. Germany needed to reunify to gain political and world strength over Europe and now they have done that. It's probably no mistake that the servers supporting the Dominion voting systems are located there and elsewhere that Heir Merkel has political control over. There isn't a decision made in Europe that she doesn't rule over. It's not going to be any kind of mistake that oil from Russia has to flow through Germany to get used by the EU and Briton will be left out to dry as an island without control over their resources. The muslims der fuhrer Merkel allowed to pass through will revolt and control France, the UK and the northern counties like Sweden, Denmark and Norway.

If you've not seen this coming you've not been paying attention! But to win we must first unite ourselves and whether you liked him or hated him Trump I believe has seen this coming for a long time. It's probably a business sense that saw the transfer of money and power over politics and feelings.

Bush needed Sadam out of the way, Obama needs the Ayatollahs and Iran and a consolidated alliance with Syria to have power over Saudi Arabia, Turkey and north Africa. Libya had to go...Egypt had to go, the Arab Spring under Obama was not mistake. The "apology tour" was no mistake! Yemen is no mistake or coincidence.

Trump uniting the Middle East powers in the UAE around Israel is happening because they know what will happen if the Globalists in Russia, Germany(EU) and China take power. One single continent larger than any other on earth except the Americas. Divide the USA from Canada and the South/Central Americas and we won't be a super power for long...shut down our oil industry as a precursor to climate control and watch China and Russia double production on demand. We will not only be buying our lithium powered electric cars from China they will come with Chinese AI drivers to collect data on everything we do and you won't have to worry about the 2A in the future the Chinese Army will be glad to blow up your house and rebuild the land with low income housing units for hundreds or thousands or immigrant workers be they brown, black, yellow, red or white.

Think I'm kidding? Hell, I don't even know if I'm being serious let alone know if I have been keeping up with world events since retiring.

I certainly hope I'm wrong.

[Badger52]

My $.02, the US only seems ungovernable because of too much G, rather than 'g'. Imagine an individual state, of any stripe or persuasion, that is completely absent the influence of G in their decision-making. How do they conduct themselves if they can't (or don't need to) posture for money & power from on high?

The list of things in G's charter should be cut back to fit on the fingers of 1 hand. This has a collateral effect of drying up the teat that 'g' has been nursing on for too long. There are no more antibodies or good vitamins to be gained. There will be some tears about that. The tears will tell you who needs to go. How that happens may end up a hybrid of bubba's and Tony's and ODNT's and others' thoughts above. Lots of smart folks hereabouts. Possibilities might range from "hit the road, Jack" to the Ceaucescu method.

Some may want to take a good look at the 5km that surrounds them, assess it, then move that radius out if they have the time, and repeat.

Edit: the above typed with my Kulak-class Folger's in the Reagan Library mug, no boutique anything. Now to the inventory of items for the cranberry relish for Sunday's visit by the kinfolk.

[RCummings]

Excellent thoughts, ODNT, I do see this, that is going on in the United States, as a much larger agenda. The EU and their action arm the IMF are working the plan for globalization to perfection. The few folks that I know in the UK despise Brussels for being the Dictator of all things. Could it be with the division here and in other countries is simply, divide and conquer? Tonyz, I agree with your observation of the IMF leadership and add, have you ever met a benevolent banker? Does the EU control the IMF or as I see it the other way around?

Thank you for allowing me to be part of this conversation,

Bob