obama says "free college"

[Mills]

Originally Posted by MtnGoat

As my Dad would say, Nothing is ever FREE Son.

What is our current debt?? Gee I just wonder how much this will add to it.

But he will Veto the XL Keystone pipeline that passed the last Senate and House!

Only because the tax cheat Mary Landrieu is no longer using it as a re-election talking point.

[Javadrinker]

The GI Bill was such a program and gave a HUGE 'jump start' to what and who America has become; perhaps it's time to see what can be done along those lines again - whether or not it may be possible is TBD.


The GI Bill had to first be earned before being used and a grade point still had to be maintained or it was lost.
Now, if attending CC for 2 years for free entailed entering the Armed Forces and serving year for year ok..maybe.

Originally Posted by Javadrinker

The GI Bill was such a program and gave a HUGE 'jump start' to what and who America has become; perhaps it's time to see what can be done along those lines again - whether or not it may be possible is TBD.


The GI Bill had to first be earned before being used and a grade point still had to be maintained or it was lost.
Now, if attending CC for 2 years for free entailed entering the Armed Forces and serving year for year ok..maybe.

Congratulations...you just suggested a plan that would be nothing more than a humongous waste of tax dollars.

[fng13]

As a relatively recent grad (2010) I had to borrow $75,000 to earn my degree, while working through school.

I had the unfortunate timing to enter school during the beginning of the financial crisis and then graduate on it's heels. I also come from one of the poorest counties in Pennsylvania, and went to school in an economically depressed area.
Needless to say that jobs, especially during the time period, were hard to come by.

I graduated in 2010 and am fortunate enough to have transformed an internship into a sales position with a modest salary. My wife, who is from the same area and graduated with me had $28,000 in debt and that is with her family, who could afford to pay for her education, helping some but not paying all. Combined we had over $100,000 in debt. I had a job right out of school, but she didn't.

Since graduating my company has not raised any wages for any of the 115 employees. My wife has had to change jobs 3 times. Yet, we have scrimped and saved and have a modest savings account own both our vehicles and reduced our debt to <$30,000 combined. However, we have had to put off starting a family or purchasing a home.

I only mention this to illustrate the point that I am intimately familiar with the current cost, and value of higher education. I am not complaining and we all make our own choices. Although certainly I wish I would have not blindly entered college, simply because it was what we were told to do after high school.

Regarding the OP, I wish first of all that they would set and hold fast reduced interest rates for federal student loans. The supposed reduce interest rates I received from the fed had interest rates of 6 points or higher. The rates from federally guaranteed private lenders such as Sallie-Mae were even higher. I had some over 12%, at a time when the fed was loaning money to these institutions at 0%. That means Sallie-Mae is able to make 12% and in some cases higher simply for administering the loans, using taxpayer money they received for free.

How about lending federal money to students directly at low <2% or no interest.

Furthermore, I would rather see them expand the federal loan forgiveness program, rather than just give away the money to anyone that signs up for school. Expand opportunities to private sector employees rather than limiting it to only public servants. Or offer volunteer opportunities for private sector employees that would qualify towards loan forgiveness. That way only those who 1. complete school and 2. work continuously for 7 years and make all of their monthly payments could qualify for some relief. After all, is the goal not to encourage educated workers to actually be in the workforce?

Just a little perspective from my experience, yours certainly may vary.

[Dusty]

If I was a libdemon pol and wanted more votes in '16 from young 'uns, I'd promise them free college. If I wanted votes from old folks, I'd scare 'em by telling them the repubs were gonna eliminate SS and Medicare. If I wanted votes from poor minorities, I'd promise free medical care. If I wanted votes from Latinos, I'd give the illegal ones amnesty. If I wanted them from gays, I'd extol same sex marriage; from Muslims, I'd refrain from calling terrorism what it is, ad nauseum.

The dems want a single-party system. They're rendering conservatives obsolete.
What surprises me is the people who should be smart enough to know better actually buying into this baloney.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Dusty

What surprises me is the people who should be smart enough to know better actually buying into this baloney.

Not when they've gone to "free" public schools for 13 years during their formative years.

Pat

[tonyz]

IMO Dusty nailed it.

College education, skills, trades, internships, etc., are indeed laudable goals which generally benefit both the individual and society. The rub begins once .GOV gets too deeply involved.

Many, .GOV PROGRAMs initially presented to be...of the people, by the people, and for the people rapidly devolve into a PROGRAM...of the bureaucracy, by the bureaucracy, and for the bureaucracy.

The lessons learned in the ObamaCare debacle are the most recent illustration of BIG .GOVs inefficiency and incompetence.

How much did .GOV spend on that useless website design?

Have we the people not been "Grubered" enough already?

An individual should work hard to improve one's skills, training, higher education, etc.,...I am just a bit leery of additional .GOV participation, particularly under this administration. I simply do not trust them to be good stewards of our money - and I believe with good reason.

Govenment bureaucrats are now entangled deeper within our healthcare system (they used to be private sector bureaucrats). And as we know well, governement bureaucrats would never spend our money unwisely? Hundreds of millions would never be spent on a bullshit .GOV website? Riggggggghhhhttttt.

Below, for those who have not watched these discussions already, are some interesting observations by Milton Friedman - there are many, many more.

Milton Friedman - Should Higher Education Be Subsidized?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-_r_t7AZU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MRpEV2tmYz4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DvNzi7tmkx0

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by PSM

Not when they've gone to "free" public schools for 13 years during their formative years.

Pat

I'm in that group. I paid for my college, but I would have been happy to go for free. Probably would have voted for the guy who initiated the program, too.

Of course, lids were only ten bucks back then.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Javadrinker

The GI Bill was such a program and gave a HUGE 'jump start' to what and who America has become; perhaps it's time to see what can be done along those lines again - whether or not it may be possible is TBD.


The GI Bill had to first be earned before being used and a grade point still had to be maintained or it was lost.
Now, if attending CC for 2 years for free entailed entering the Armed Forces and serving year for year ok..maybe.

It also provided a buffer for 20 million or so quickly unemployed GIs who had served their country, and helped them earn a degree before being dumped back into the labor pool.

Not some unmotivated, pot-smoking, basement-dweller looking for a way to keep spending someone else's money and avoid having to go to work.

I'm trying hard to think of a program that has been improved since the Federal government got involved, and I am having trouble remembering any since the Interstate Highway System.

TR

[Sdiver]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I'm trying hard to think of a program that has been improved since the Federal government got involved, and I am having trouble remembering any since the Interstate Highway System.

TR

Clara Bow ... Frank's right, you are old.

[Trapper John]

I'm going to take a minority position and stand with Richard on this one.

IMO, this is not an issue to be politicized, public education after all is a legitimate function of government and this topic is long overdue.

Does anyone here doubt that our public education system is in need of serious overhaul? For all the reasons that Richard mentioned, this is a good idea at first blush. The way we have been treating education has not been working out so well in the past IMO. So let's try something differently.

Reform of education, taxation, fiscal, and economic policy are the top priorities IMO.

Let's get to work.

PS: If we had this sort of debate/discussion over healthcare, we would not have ended up with the mess that the ACA is. JMHO

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

Does anyone here doubt that our public education system is in need of serious overhaul? PS: If we had this sort of debate/discussion over healthcare, we would not have ended up with the mess that the ACA is. JMHO

The overhaul needed is for the commie educators to be thrown out.
As for the PS: Are you serious?

[tonyz]

During the healthcare debate I posted in this forum that if the governement was so dead set on spending billions of tax dollars to reform healthcare delivery then - to the extent I had a say - spend those billions on creating more healthcare professionals to drive down our healthcare costs...add research, faculty, labs and professors to our existing research, medical and nursing schools...push out more qualified medical and research graduates. THAT instead of this monster bureaucracy that creates not one more educated healthcare provider...

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I'm trying hard to think of a program that has been improved since the Federal government got involved, and I am having trouble remembering any since the Interstate Highway System.

TR

I was a big proponent of Reagan's tax cut/pay raise programs.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by tonyz

During the healthcare debate I posted in this forum that if the governement was so dead set on spending billions of tax dollars to reform healthcare delivery then - to the extent I had a say - spend those billions on creating more healthcare professionals to drive down our healthcare costs...add research, faculty, labs and professors to our existing research, medical and nursing schools...push out more qualified medical and research graduates. THAT instead of this monster bureaucracy that creates not one more educated healthcare provider...

The goal was never anything but a single-payer checkmate.