Old 10-23-2018, 05:18   #1
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Income Inequality

So, I've been hearing more and more about the issue of raising income inequality in the US, and how it historically correlates with societal destabilization. I've also seen more press on this idea of Universal Basic Income, and it didn't go unnoticed to me that the UN has been playing with the idea of adding income inequity as a variable to the Human Development Index for the past decade or so.

On the face of it, it seemed logical to me.
If the stats are saying income inequality is raising, and the general feeling of an inability to be upwardly mobile begins to grow, there must be a point at which it's not healthy for our country as a whole.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty fiscally right leaning, and I certainly have an issue with aggressive wealth redistribution, well at least through the governments grubby little hands.

But, looking into this more deeply, it seems to me the basic stats are, well, verging on a fabrication.

Is anyone else seeing how badly put together these income inequality numbers are?

S
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Old 10-23-2018, 05:39   #2
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Don't care much. The brass ring is out there for those who want to grab it.

If you want to drop out of school and work minimum wage the rest of your life that is your choice. This is America.

If you want to drop out of school prego and have a few more without getting married before you're 21 and exist on social programs that is your choice. This is America.

If you want to live the thug life, be in and out of prison a few times before you're 21 then that is your choice. This is America.

No matter what situation you are born into in America you can put your head down and charge into life getting an education in the direction you want to go, work hard and realize your dreams. This is America.

Don't ask me to pay for somebody else's poor life choices. This is America.
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Old 10-23-2018, 05:40   #3
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There is no logic behind the premise that in a capitalist society that "raising the floor" will have the effect of "raising the ceiling".

It is about equality of outcome versus equality of opportunity.
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Old 10-23-2018, 05:45   #4
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America first ! don't care what the UN does. The better off we are with our people the more we give and help out the rest of the world.
we would be better off looking into jobs and have equal pay for equal work. Not the democrats meaning of that. Enforce the laws or change them.


what source are you talking about ?

https://www.census.gov/topics/income...nequality.html

this ?
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:04   #5
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A thought behind the idea that raising the floor = raising the ceiling

When you move them both at the same time, it has the same effect as ZERO progress. If you 'raise the floor' without raising the ceiling, the room gets way too crowded, way too fast. If you leave the floor alone and you REALLY want to make progress - start work on the second floor. People that want to advance wont mind walking up a flight of stair. That tends to raise the ceiling AND expand opportunities.

...unless you aren't really concerned about "raising people up" in the first place.
...or, unless you are a leftist or a politician



Is it just a coincidence that "U.N." when added to just about any word, deteriorates value...
UN-productive
UN-derdeveloped
UN-sophisticated
UN-intelligent
UN-distinguished
UN-certainty
UN-clean
UN-accountable
UN-healthy
UN-realistic
UN-elected
UN-ethical

...then of course couple of my favorite United Nations "UN" words...

U.N. necessary
U.N. wanted
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Old 10-23-2018, 13:14   #6
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Well, there's always this

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/1...-tax-increases



There needs to be a new birthright in our country — universal ‘opportunity accounts’ that give EVERY single American kid a shot at the American Dream,” Booker tweeted. “Everyone deserves economic opportunity — not just the 1%.”
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Old 10-23-2018, 13:30   #7
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Booker doesn’t need to raise tax dollars for this idea...Bill Gates and the thousands of Hollywood libs can voluntarily fund this for 21 years and show us how great it works. While they are at...volunteer an extra 20% of their “fair share” in increased annual tax payments any time they want.

No need for increasing the tax burden on the rest of us.

Put your and your well heeled friend’s money where your mouth is “Spartacus.”
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Old 10-23-2018, 15:15   #8
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Originally Posted by glebo View Post
...There needs to be a new birthright in our country — universal ‘opportunity accounts’ that give EVERY single American kid a shot at the American Dream,” Booker tweeted. “Everyone deserves economic opportunity — not just the 1%.”
Best thing we could do for the children of America is close down the Dept of Education, close all public schools and outlaw teacher's unions.
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Old 10-23-2018, 16:52   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glebo View Post
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/1...-tax-increases



There needs to be a new birthright in our country — universal ‘opportunity accounts’ that give EVERY single American kid a shot at the American Dream,” Booker tweeted. “Everyone deserves economic opportunity — not just the 1%.”
The median annual household income globally is just over $9,700. Per -capita around $3,000 a year. So, every time jokers like that talk about the 1% they better be looking in the mirror because if you live in the United States chances are YOU ARE the 1%.
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Old 10-23-2018, 20:00   #10
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Socialist want to raise to floor and lower the ceiling until they are even except for the elite....hmmm sounds like a Democrat platform

I saw an ad for a college in which they basically were saying that talent is equally distributed but not opportunity......it came from a college meaning they know this is absolutely incorrect and are being deceitful from a position of authority and trust...defund them now.

The UN pushing for such a stance and tracking that is silly it is appropriate in Africa and other third world countries where warlords and dictators seize everything then the index is appropriate but in the world of free markets it is absolutely not.

I support this in America to the sports analogy my son playing T-ball and every other sport as he grew up with parents insisting their kids get play time even though they were not interested, had no aptitude and the other kids were giving them issues because we struggled to win games....even kids want to win. The parents were the issue not the kids, the kids that were no good did not want to play the sport and during practices without parents there they caught crap by the better players....but parents wanted equal playing time and were constantly griping at the kids and complaining when the team lost.....it was not about sports it was about life the summer sport for their kid is a lead into life. People/kids if left alone would gravitate to their strengths and talents no matter what it is eventually they find their place in society everybody does. Their is always a hierarchy of talent and ability no matter what we do their is always a best and a worst and those....who need to do something else. The world does not need 7 billion baseball players they need, bakers, business, chefs, laborers, architects, scientist, inventors, janitors, business managers, mechanics, doctors, lawyers, teachers, farmers, ranchers, butchers......

Today the U.S. thanks to social movements trying to do exactly what the U.N. wants to measure equalize society through law and policy....what we ended up with are square pegs shoved into round holes....people with Masters Degrees who can't write or speak properly, females in mens jobs slowing production or weakening the military, cops who can't protect the community, etc...etc...etc....and loss of the freedom to choose slowly but surely. Microsoft produces immeasurable jobs and wealth for those without the intellectual knowledge to produce the product making the wealth....from top to bottom of any company is the hierarchy of knowledge, skills and abilities from most critical to least critical with commensurate pay to match what they bring to add value to the company. The Left forgets the nucleus of how wealth is made and somehow think that without the incentive that people will still have the motivation to produce these things.

I bear no hard feelings towards the law of the natural talent distribution....I have what I have and if someone were to remove Bill Gates and replace him with me I would be broke and so would the wealth he built be gone....I do not have his passion, knowledge, vision, drive and initiative etc.....but thanks to him their is an unmeasurable amount of wealth produced daily world wide and without him their would be nothing on that scale, the same goes for the Dodge Bros, Henry Ford, Coca Cola, Budweiser, Shell Oil etc.....because of all the producers in the world I have a better way of life and an opportunity to make my own way. There is nothing standing in the way of me getting the training, going to college, going to the library and working hard to achieve whatever I want.
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Old 10-24-2018, 05:40   #11
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Originally Posted by Pete View Post
Best thing we could do for the children of America is close down the Dept of Education, close all public schools and outlaw teacher's unions.
This is the field upon which our Governor remains 'Satan Incarnate' to the High Church of Akademia in these parts. He:
- made them contribute toward their pension, lowering the rank & file taxpayer burden.
- made them contribute toward their own monopolistic health-care program (run by the union), doing the same thing and, for dessert,
- made it easier for folks to do home-schooling (I have 2 grand-daughters who were home-schooled up till middle-school, entered the public system, and proceeded to smoke it) and, finally,
- prohibited public employees who didn't want to belong to the union from having dues deducted from their pay.

The socialist machine hates him with a passion like no other because he stopped them from getting into everyone else's wallet (which he termed "theft") and, further, divert$ dollar$ from things that look like they're endorsed by a re-education camp, which is what his opponent this year was in charge of as Head Kommissar of Public Instruction (unfortunately an elected office). Ultimately, socialists feel they are the only ones who know how to properly spend your money.
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Old 10-24-2018, 05:41   #12
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Seems as though the US is already involved providing a universal basic income to many folks by way of Welfare/SNAP benefits, and providing aid to other countries. I've heard that in the US a person can bring in upwards of 60k per year in government entitlements if they know how to game the system. I have also heard that the US government will pay 4 years of housing expenses for immigrants.

The long game for proponents of Universal Basis Income such as Mark Zuckerberg, is the ability to control lives of the little people by creating a plantation that provides what is deemed the basic needs to exist.

Amazon is becoming so large, and involved in so many revenue streams that it is entirely possible that they could be the employer for a very large segment of the population and be the majority source/provider of their employees basic needs.

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Old 10-24-2018, 05:49   #13
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I may be wrong, but I see the shift as a move to lower the cellar, as opposed to raising the floor or ceiling.

Too many of today's youths are just not motivated, both genetically and environmentally. It also doesn't help that the education system is full of SJWs that encourage these kids with promises of a welfare state.

The opportunity is there, anyone can take advantage of it, but can they?

The other end of this roller coaster is technology. The cost of the technology prevents some from being competitive, but over time the costs go down.

The mental complexity-dexterity needed to use and/or develop new technologies is harder to overcome and can leave many out.

50 years ago I started as a young programmer using binary languages to code programs. Not only was it gibberish to 99%, but what it accomplished was also of little practical use to most.

By the late 70t's we were using readable programming languages and producing output/product that the user could use to replace common everyday manual tasks.

In the 80t's we invented PCs. They were expensive(3K+) and only played games or spreadsheets or replaced typewriters, but they were available to the masses.

Today we have "phones" that do just about everything and the end user is oblivious to the technologies needed to accomplish a simple task of texting, which OBTW did not even exist 20yrs ago.

We haven't raised the ceiling. The few individuals capable of inventing these technologies have not ballooned. Their numbers are small and I suspect, the percentage is shrinking.

It's the rapid deployment of the technologies that make some think they have moved up.

And it's technology that is separating the can's from the can not's..

Being a USER is not being a DEVELOPER.

And,, I need another cup of coffee...
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:15   #14
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Don't care much. The brass ring is out there for those who want to grab it.

Don't ask me to pay for somebody else's poor life choices. This is America.
Exactly......there are opportunities out there, people need to get off your fat, lazy asses and climb those steps. It is way too easy for today's youth, they don't want to work hard or contribute. They expect a handout; not like when I was young. I had to work, sometimes even 3 jobs. I had to drag myself out of bed and jump at every opportunity even if I failed. LOL Independent Woman......but I kept pushing, and grabbing at whatever I could to get where I am today. I don't want, or should have to pay for people who act like we owe them something.

Distribute wealth; well F you....I have no problem helping those who need it, who at least work but need that little extra to get by. Life is freaking hard, economically, mentally and physically. It is not a walk in a flowery fairy field. These paths we take direct us to where we are at today. If you want to stumble down that path,be lackadaisical and expect a handout, then you are sadly mistaken. Not one person, or program was there to offer assistance to me when I needed it; so I just did it myself. That is America....not a Socialist State, even though the Democrats are pushing very hard for it…It won’t fly….
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