Old 09-30-2009, 15:08   #46
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Why the negativity? I suspect it's because the implication is conflict of some sort. Whether that conflict consists of civil discussion or activities skewed toward the kinetic does not matter - disturbance of the present calm prosperity would follow. (Note - I say "calm prosperity" with a small hint of sarcasm).

I had the chance to attend a talk by an Imam. I will be the first to concede that a single, brief talk in a public venue to a non-Islamic audience does not provide any expertise - but I got some impressions. If I'm too far in error, perhaps others will offer correction.

First, Islam appears to offer the leadership a remarkable opportunity for control. I gathered that the designated leader (the Imam) controls both the religious and a substantial portion of the non-religious life of the affiliates. For example, an individual who needed employment or financial aid would go to the Imam. If this is true, then the leadership seems unlikely to want to give up such authority.

I noted at the time that the underlying view of Islam (admittedly based on a single and none-too-dependable data point) seems contrary to the fundamental constitutional principles of the U.S., and, perhaps, Western Civilization in general. Specifically, it seemed that Islam combined church and state into a single, unitary leader, whereas the separation of these roles seems emphasized in the West. In addition, I note that a central schism in Islam rests (as far as I understand it) on the destruction of the Caliphate due to conflict between two individuals who claimed they were each the more appropriate inheritor of authority. Since there still seems to be some friction between the Shia and Sunni sects, and I get the impression that there is a certain longing for the reestablishment of the Caliphate - once again combining absolute religious and secular authority in a single individual ruler - then the Western and Islamic views are inherently in conflict. Furthermore, this may suggest that, in the end, at most one such view can survive.

I have to wonder whether an attitude as a MINO is viable in a system where both religion and secular aspects are combined. I think it would take quite an unusual person to be able to navigate appearing to believe 24/7 - 365 for decades, while actually believing something else. That is, perhaps, a strength of the Islamic system. It appears that if an adherent rejects it, then they walk away from the entire support system.

The situation may become more interesting as exponential growth plays out. I notice that a number of Islamic countries have high birth rates but a seeming inability to provide support (or, for that matter, sustenance) for the population. This suggests either immigration (to the U.S., for example) or social instability. But if there is privation, then it seems likely that they will go to their Imam, who will bind them even more closely to Jihad. Thus, a self-reinforcing cycle which will drive escalating conflict.

What of the moderates? I suspect they will do whatever fills their rice-bowl for the short term. Just like most people do. But this has implications if the world faces shortages (as I believe) rather than ever-growing abundance. The moderates may be nearly as deadly as any other combatant, and yet be seen as canon-fodder by their leaders. In a population-surplus scenario, their use in warfare might represent a relief of the excess population, not unlike the situation in Europe centuries ago.

As for testing friends...there are friends, and there are acquaintances. I have heard it said that if, over an entire lifetime, you have as many friends as you have fingers on one hand, you can count yourself as fortunate. I think a distinction between someone who supplies amusing banter over lunch and someone who would help one through dire circumstances is in order. Rhetorical question: What if Nmap's ravings are right, and you really need a friend? Wouldn't it be nice to know who they were?

And finally, a respectful note to Richard. I sometimes remind myself that this or that group is not against me, they are just for themselves. I think this may apply to the collision of values between our system and Islam. They are for themselves. This implies that we must be, unabashedly and without hesitation, for ourselves and what we believe in. I am not at all sure that we are, as a society, willing to follow the path of being for ourselves. If that's true, then those who do believe in themselves just might win - leading to a transition from our existing system of beliefs to a different one. To steal a line from NDD - do we still want to quit?
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Old 10-01-2009, 17:11   #47
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Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor View Post
Full answer is to get a copy of Ibn Warraq's Leaving Islam:
http://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Islam-.../dp/1591020689
The three questions concern the credibility of an interpretation offered by a person using said sources in addition to the reliability of those sources themselves. (Also, respectfully but bluntly, the notion that a single book on any topic gives a "full answer" to any question is at odds with the conventions of intellectual inquiry in the Western world that have been practiced the last seven centuries.)
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Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor View Post
[G]et a copy...Read the back of the book....
Please do not take offense but I decline what appears to be an invitation. It is my observation that you frequently use this rhetorical tactic when you respond to viewpoints that disagree or question yours. The logic appears to be if I've read what you've read, I'll interpret it as you do.

Unfortunately, on those occasions where I've taken a look at some of the sources you cite, not only do I disagree with you but the sources themselves do not support your position or they contradict other sources that you site or positions you've taken elsewhere or the sources just are not reliable. Or all of the above. And these are sources that are in English. The most convenient, if not recent, examples are your discussion of 'Stockholm Syndrome' and the historiography of Nazism, which I addressed above.

Your interpretations of the religious, political, social, intellectual, strategic, economic, diplomatic, military, naval, and cultural history of Europe and America are similarly at odds with what little I know about those topics.

For these reasons and many others--not the least of which is the tone you use when people have the temerity to disagree with you--I do not have as high a level of confidence in your expertise on these topics as I need to accept your guidance on the topic at hand.

FWIW, your posts on the topic at hand have occasioned substantial changes to my reading/research agenda. Indeed, earlier this week I encountered a useful summary of the two prevailing views of the Islamic world offered in the West since 9/11. (Your comments are in line with the first view.) The summary is followed by an interesting piece of analysis.
Quote:
Neither of these interpretations is particularly novel. Both echo the received wisdom in the field of Middle Eastern studies since the early twentieth century, which views the region's history as an offshoot of global power politics rather than a process propelled by internal, autonomous dynamics.*
Two additional comments.
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Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor View Post
This wasn't translated by some lone-wolf and it can't be accused of "orientalism."
I understand that you disagree with Said's critique. I do not understand why you demonstrate your dislike for his analysis by posting comments that exemplify the man's points.

The second comment centers around your apparent disdain for what you label "revisionist" history. Sir, please know that your tone, the structure of your argument, your historiographical sensibilities, your selection of sources, and your use of those sources are strikingly similar to the practices of the so-called revisionist historians of American foreign relations. Please also know that while these scholars have given historians a different way to look at the past, the energy they brought to the discussion proved to be counterproductive not only to their own intellectual interests but also damaging to themselves and to others.

______________________________________________
* Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism: A History (New Haven and London: Yale University Press, 2006), p. 2.
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Old 10-01-2009, 21:14   #48
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But whose negativity is whose? And why is offering criticism a necessary evil? As I have neither the time nor desire to engage in what would assuredly become another overly lengthy e-debate on the theses of this editorial and its many leaps in logic - combined with such overtly negative language - which but lend themselves to challenge and criticism, I posit that histroical context is of great relevance when attempting to present any argument such as this one seeks to address, and will - therefore - only offer the following for those who may be interested in perhaps a better understanding of what Professor Telhami warns us of in his remarks to Congress:
It is primarily al-Qaeda and its allies as organizations that must be defeated. It is not terrorism broadly and it is not Islamism broadly.

<snip>

Given the deficient expertise in our bureaucracies in the languages, religions, and cultures of the Muslim world, we risk the chance of mistakes that could backfire, relying on locals who have their own agendas, and wasting precious resources. The strategy in the first place must remain focused on the operational and the logistical, not on what people say.


Richard's $.02
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It is primarily al-Qaeda, sure it is.... forget the other hundred or so islamic terrorists groups that have been wreaking havoc the last 40 years.....

AFGHANISTAN

NAME: al Qaeda

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: Established by Osama bin Laden in the late 1980s.

GOALS: Establish a pan-Islamic Caliphate throughout the world by working with allied Islamic extremist groups to overthrow regimes it deems "non-Islamic," and expelling Westerners and non-Muslims from Muslim countries.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: Is suspected of involvement in the October 2000 bombing of the USS Cole in Aden, Yemen. Conducted the bombings in August 1998 of the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, that killed at least 301 persons and injured more than 5,000 others. Claims to have shot down U.S. helicopters and killed U.S. servicemen in Somalia in 1993, and to have conducted three bombings that targeted U.S. troops in Aden, Yemen, in December 1992.

STRENGTH: May have several hundred to several thousand members.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Al Qaeda has a worldwide reach with cells in a number of countries, and benefits from its ties to Sunni extremist networks. Bin Laden and his top associates reside in Afghanistan, and the group maintains terrorist training camps there.

AFFILIATIONS: Serves as the umbrella organization for a worldwide network that includes many Sunni Islamic extremist groups, such as Egyptian Islamic Jihad, some members of al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, and the Harakat ul-Mujahidin.

COMMENTS: Bin Laden is the son of a wealthy Saudi family, and uses his inheritance to finance the group. Al Qaeda also operates moneymaking front organizations, solicits donations, and illicitly siphons funds from donations to Muslim charitable organizations.


ALGERIA


NAME: Armed Islamic Group (GIA)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: 1992.

GOALS: GIA aims to overthrow the secular Algerian regime and replace it with an Islamic state.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: None.

STRENGTH: Unknown, probably several hundred to several thousand.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Algeria.

AFFILIATIONS: Algerian expatriates and members of the Salafi Group for Call and Combat (GSPC) splinter group abroad, many of whom reside in Western Europe, provide financial and logistic support. In addition, the Algerian government has accused Iran and Sudan of supporting Algerian extremists.

COMMENTS: The GSPC splinter faction appears to have eclipsed the GIA since approximately 1998 and is currently assessed to be the most effective remaining armed group inside Algeria. A U.S. Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.

NAME: The Salafist Group for Call and Combat (GSPC)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: 1996.

GOALS: Overthrow the Algerian government and impose fundamentalist Islamic theocracy.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: Unknown.

STRENGTH: Unknown; suspected to be several hundred to several thousand.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Algeria.

AFFILIATIONS: Algerian expatriates and GSPC members living abroad. The Algerian government has accused Iran and Sudan of supporting Algerian extremists. The GSPC may also receive support from the Armed Islamic Group (GIA) network in Europe, Africa and the Middle East. Some GSPC members in Europe are suspected of having ties with other North African extremists sympathetic to al Qaeda.

COMMENTS: GSPC is a splinter group of the GIA, and has gained popular support through its pledge not to attack civilians inside Algeria (although it has not kept the pledge). It was designated a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) on March 27, 2002.

EGYPT


NAME: Al-Jihad a.k.a. Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Jihad Group, Islamic Jihad

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: Late 1970s.

GOALS: Overthrow the Egyptian government and replace it with an Islamic state; attack U.S. and Israeli interests in Egypt and abroad.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: Car-bombing against official U.S. facilities.

STRENGTH: Unknown, suspected to be several hundred.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Mainly Cairo, but has a network outside Egypt, including Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Lebanon, and the United Kingdom.

AFFILIATIONS: Close partner of Osama Bin Laden's al Qaeda; Iran. May get some funds via various Islamic non-governmental organizations, cover businesses, and criminal acts.

COMMENTS: The original Jihad was responsible for the 1981 assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat.


NAME: Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group, IG)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: Late 1970s.

GOALS: The IG's primary goal is to overthrow the Egyptian government and replace it with an Islamic state, but certain group leaders also may be interested in attacking U.S. and Israeli interests.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: The IG has never specifically attacked a U.S. citizen or facility but has threatened U.S. interests.

STRENGTH: Unknown. At its peak, the IG probably commanded several thousand hard-core members and a like number of sympathizers. The 1998 cease-fire and security crackdowns following the attack on tourists in Luxor in 1997 probably have resulted in a substantial decrease in the group's numbers.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Operates mainly in the Al-Minya, Asyu't, Qina, and Sohaj Governorates of southern Egypt. Also appears to have support in Cairo, Alexandria, and other urban locations, particularly among unemployed graduates and students. Has a worldwide presence, including Sudan, the United Kingdom, Afghanistan, Austria, and Yemen.

AFFILIATIONS: Unknown. The Egyptian government believes that Iran, bin Laden, and Afghan militant groups support the organization. Also may obtain some funding through various Islamic non-governmental organizations.

COMMENTS: Al-Gama'a claims responsibility for the attempt in June 1995 to assassinate Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. The group's spiritual leader, Shaykh Umar Abd al-Rahman, is incarcerated in the United States. A Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.
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Old 10-01-2009, 21:20   #49
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Please do not take offense but I decline what appears to be an invitation. It is my observation that you frequently use this rhetorical tactic when you respond to viewpoints that disagree or question yours. The logic appears to be if I've read what you've read, I'll interpret it as you do.
Sigaba, if I may know, why decline?
Rhetorical tactic or not, this response may suggest that you fear you'd actually share the LTC's interpretation if you do read his reading-list recommendations?
To compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges, wouldn't one first need to "read" much about apples' and oranges' structure, look, taste, etc. in order to properly differentiate?

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Unfortunately, on those occasions where I've taken a look at some of the sources you cite, not only do I disagree with you but the sources themselves do not support your position or they contradict other sources that you site or positions you've taken elsewhere or the sources just are not reliable. Or all of the above. And these are sources that are in English. The most convenient, if not recent, examples are your discussion of 'Stockholm Syndrome' and the historiography of Nazism, which I addressed above.
Would you please elaborate more on this. Point out any logical inconsistencies.Lay all the cards out, as I do wish to learn and seek clarity.
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Old 10-01-2009, 21:20   #50
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INDIA

NAME: Al-Ummah

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: 1992.

GOALS: Unknown.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: None.

STRENGTH: Unknown.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Southern India.

AFFILIATIONS: Unknown.

COMMENTS: Radical Indian Muslim group believed responsible for the Coimbatore bombings in Southern India in 1998.



IRAQ

NAME: Abu Nidal organization (ANO) a.k.a. Fatah Revolutionary Council, Arab Revolutionary Brigades, Black September, and Revolutionary Organization of Socialist Muslims.

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: Split from the PLO in 1974.

GOALS: Establishment of a Palestinian State.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: Targets include the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Israel, moderate Palestinians, the PLO, and various Arab countries. Has not attacked Western targets since the late 1980s.

STRENGTH: A few hundred plus limited overseas support structure.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Its leader, Sabri Al-Banna, relocated to Iraq in December 1998, where the group maintains a presence. Has an operational presence in Lebanon, including in several Palestinian refugee camps. Authorities shut down the ANO's operations in Libya and Egypt in 1999. Has demonstrated ability to operate over wide area, including the Middle East, Asia, and Europe. Has carried out terrorist attacks in 20 countries, killing or injuring almost 900 persons.

AFFILIATIONS: Has received considerable support, including safe haven, training, logistic assistance, and financial aid from Iraq, Libya, and Syria (until 1987), in addition to close support for selected operations.

COMMENTS: Financial problems and internal disorganization have reduced the group's activities and capabilities. A Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.



NAME: Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK or MKO) a.k.a. The National Liberation Army of Iran (NLA, the militant wing of the MEK), the People's Mujahidin of Iran (PMOI), National Council of Resistance (NCR), Muslim Iranian Student's Society (front organization used to garner financial support).

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: 1960s.

GOALS: The MEK continues to conduct a worldwide campaign against the Iranian government, which stresses propaganda and occasionally uses terrorist violence.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: During the 1970s, the MEK staged terrorist attacks inside Iran and killed several U.S. military personnel and civilians working on defense projects in Tehran. Supported the takeover in 1979 of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran.

STRENGTH: Several thousand fighters based in Iraq with an extensive overseas support structure. Most of the fighters are organized in the MEK's National Liberation Army (NLA).

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: In the 1980s, the MEK's leaders were forced by Iranian security forces to flee to France. Most resettled in Iraq by 1987. In the mid-1980s, the group did not mount terrorist operations in Iran at a level similar to its activities in the 1970s. In the 1990s, however, the MEK claimed credit for an increasing number of operations in Iran.

AFFILIATIONS: Beyond support from Iraq, the MEK uses front organizations to solicit contributions from expatriate Iranian communities.

COMMENTS: Formed by the college-educated children of Iranian merchants, the MEK sought to counter what it perceived as excessive Western influence in the Shah's regime. Following a philosophy that mixes Marxism and Islam, the MEK has developed into the largest and most active armed Iranian dissident group. Its history is studded with anti-Western activity, and, most recently, attacks on the interests of the clerical regime in Iran and abroad. A Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.
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Old 10-01-2009, 21:21   #51
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NAME: Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: Broke away from the PFLP-GC in mid-1970s.

GOALS: Creation of a Palestinian state.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: The Abu Abbas-led faction was responsible for the attack in 1985 on the cruise ship Achille Lauro and the murder of U.S. citizen Leon Klinghoffer.

STRENGTH: Unknown.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Based in Tunisia until Achille Lauro attack, it is now based in Iraq.

AFFILIATIONS: Receives support mainly from Iraq. Has received support from Libya in the past.

COMMENTS: After its initial break with the PFLP-GC, split again into pro-PLO, pro-Syrian, and pro-Libyan factions. Pro-PLO faction is led by Muhammad Abbas (Abu Abbas), who became member of PLO Executive Committee in 1984 but left it in 1991. A warrant for Abu Abbas's arrest is outstanding in Italy. A Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.

LEBANON

NAME: ‘Asbat al-Ansar (The Partisans’ League)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: Early 1990s.

GOALS: Overthrow the Lebanese government and thwart anti-Islamic influences in Lebanon.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: None.

STRENGTH: About 300 fighters.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Primary base of operations is the ‘Ayn al-Hilwah Palestinian refugee camp in southern Lebanon.

AFFILIATIONS: Overseas Sunni extremist networks and Osama bin Laden’s al Qaeda.

COMMENTS: A Lebanon-based group composed mainly of Palestinians, Asbat al-Ansar adheres to an extremist interpretation of Islam and justifies the use of violence against civilian targets. The group raised its profile in 2000 with a rocket-propelled grenade attack on the Russian Embassy in Beirut. It was designated a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) on March 27, 2002.


NAME: Hezbollah (Party of God) a.k.a. Islamic Jihad, Revolutionary Justice Organization, Organization of the Oppressed on Earth, and Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: Unknown.

GOALS: Increasing its political power in Lebanon, and opposing Israel and the Middle East peace negotiations.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: Known or suspected to have been involved in numerous anti-U.S. terrorist attacks, including the suicide truck bombing of the U.S. embassy and U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut in October 1983, and the U.S. embassy annex in Beirut in September 1984.

STRENGTH: Several thousand supporters and a few hundred terrorist operatives.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Operates in the Bekaa Valley, the southern suburbs of Beirut, and southern Lebanon. Has established cells in Europe, Africa, South America, North America, and Asia.

AFFILIATIONS: Receives substantial amounts of financial, training, weapons, explosives, political, diplomatic, and organizational aid from Iran and Syria.

COMMENTS: A radical Shia organization founded in Lebanon. A Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.
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Old 10-01-2009, 21:22   #52
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OCCUPIED TERRITORIES


NAME: Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: 2000

GOALS: Drive the Israeli military and people from the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem and establish a Palestinian state.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: At least five U.S. citizens have been killed in attacks, but probably not because of their citizenship. The group mainly targets Israeli military personnel and civilians.

STRENGTH: Unknown.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Mainly in the West Bank, but has also claimed responsibility for attacks inside Israel and the Gaza Strip.

AFFILIATIONS: Unknown.

COMMENTS: Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade is composed of cells of Fatah-affiliated activists that emerged with the onset of the intifadah in 2000. In January 2002, an al-Aqsa member became the first female suicide bomber in the intifadah. The group was designated a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) on March 27, 2002.

NAME: Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: 1969.

GOALS: Achieve Palestinian national goals through revolution of the masses.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: None.

STRENGTH: 500.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Syria, Lebanon, and the Israeli-occupied territories.

AFFILIATIONS: One of the two factions joined with other rejectionist groups to form the Alliances of Palestinian Forces (APF), but broke it off. Has made limited moves toward merging with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) since the mid-1990s. Receives limited financial and military aid from Syria.

COMMENTS: Marxist-Leninist organization founded when it split from the PFLP. Opposed the Israel-PLO peace agreement.



NAME: HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: 1987.

GOALS: Establishing an Islamic Palestinian state in place of Israel.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: Unknown.

STRENGTH: Unknown number of hard-core members; tens of thousands of supporters and sympathizers.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Primarily the occupied territories, Israel. In August 1999, Jordanian authorities closed the group's Political Bureau offices in Amman, arrested its leaders, and prohibited the group from operating on Jordanian territory.

AFFILIATIONS: Receives funding from Palestinian expatriates, Iran, and private benefactors in Saudi Arabia and other moderate Arab states. Some fundraising and propaganda activities take place in Western Europe and North America.

COMMENTS: Formed as an outgrowth of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Various HAMAS elements have used both political and violent means, including terrorism. Loosely structured, with some elements working clandestinely and others working openly through mosques and social service institutions to recruit members, raise money, organize activities, and distribute propaganda. Also has engaged in peaceful political activity, such as running candidates in West Bank Chamber of Commerce elections. A Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.



NAME: The Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: 1970s.

GOALS: The creation of an Islamic Palestinian state and the destruction of Israel through holy war.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: Because of its strong support for Israel, the United States has been identified as an enemy of the PIJ, but the group has not specifically conducted attacks against U.S. interests in the past. In July 2000, however, publicly threatened to attack U.S. interests if the U.S. Embassy is moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

STRENGTH: Unknown.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Primarily Israel and the occupied territories and other parts of the Middle East, including Jordan and Lebanon. Headquartered in Syria.

AFFILIATIONS: Receives financial assistance from Iran and limited logistic assistance from Syria.

COMMENTS: Originated among militant Palestinians in the Gaza Strip during the 1970s. Also opposes moderate Arab governments that it believes have been tainted by Western secularism. A Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.
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Old 10-01-2009, 21:22   #53
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PAKISTAN

NAME: Harakat ul-Ansar (HUA)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: October 1993.

GOALS: Oppose Indian troops in Kashmir.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: U.S. nationals were kidnapped in New Delhi in 1994 in effort to secure the release of imprisoned HUA leader Maulana Masood Azhar.

STRENGTH: Several thousand armed supporters

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Based in Pakistan, but operates mainly in Kashmir.

AFFILIATIONS: Collects funds from supporters in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf and Islamic states, and from Pakistanis and Kashmiris. Has been linked to the Kashmiri militant group Al-Faran. See "Army of Muhammad (JEM)."



NAME: Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: Early 1990s.

GOALS: Unite Kashmir with Pakistan.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: None, although new leader Farooq Kashmiri. Khalil, who took control of HUM in February 2000, has been linked to Bin Ladin and signed his fatwah in February 1998 calling for attacks on U.S. and Western interests.

STRENGTH: Several thousand armed supporters.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Based in Muzaffarabad, Rawalpindi, and several other towns in Pakistan and Afghanistan, but members conduct insurgent and terrorist activities primarily in Kashmir. The HUM trains its militants in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

AFFILIATIONS: Collects donations from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf and Islamic states, and from Pakistanis and Kashmiris. The sources and amount of HUM's military funding are unknown. Leadership has been linked to Osama Bin Ladin.

COMMENTS: Formerly known as the Harakat al-Ansar, the HUM is an Islamic militant group based in Pakistan that operates primarily in Kashmir. Supporters are mostly Pakistanis and Kashmiris, and also include Afghans and Arab veterans of the Afghan war. Uses light and heavy machineguns, assault rifles, mortars, explosives, and rockets. HUM lost some of its membership in defections to the Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM). Continues to operate terrorist training camps in eastern Afghanistan. A Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.



NAME: Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM) (Army of Mohammed)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: February, 2000.

GOALS: Unite Kashmir with Pakistan.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: None. JEM's leader, Maulana Masood Azhar, is a former leader of Harakat ul-Ansar (HUA), and was imprisoned until 1999 when he was released in a hostage exchange. U.S. nationals were kidnapped in New Delhi in 1994 in an earlier HUA effort to secure his release.

STRENGTH: Several hundred armed supporters.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Based in Peshawar and Muzaffarabad, but members conduct terrorist activities primarily in Kashmir. The JEM maintains training camps in Afghanistan.

AFFILIATIONS: Most of the JEM's cadre and material resources have been drawn from the militant groups Harakat ul-Jihad al-Islami (HUJI) and the Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM). The JEM has close ties to Afghan Arabs and the Taliban. Osama Bin Laden is suspected of giving funding to the JEM.

COMMENTS: The JEM is an Islamist group based in Pakistan that has rapidly expanded in size and capability. Supporters are mostly Pakistanis and Kashmiris, and also include Afghans and Arab veterans of the Afghan war. Uses light and heavy machineguns, assault rifles, mortars, improvised explosive devices, and rocket grenades. NOT a Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO), but listed as "active" during 2000.



NAME: Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LT) (Army of the Righteous)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: 1989.

GOALS: Unite Kashmir with Pakistan.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: None.

STRENGTH: Several hundred members.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Based in Muridke (near Lahore) and Muzaffarabad. The LT trains its militants in mobile training camps across Pakistan-administered Kashmir and Afghanistan.

AFFILIATIONS: Collects donations from the Pakistani community in the Persian Gulf and United Kingdom, Islamic NGOs, and Pakistani and Kashmiri businessmen. The amount of LT funding is unknown. The LT maintains ties to religious/military groups around the world, ranging from the Philippines to the Middle East and Chechnya through the MDI fraternal network.

COMMENTS: The LT is the armed wing of the Pakistan-based religious organization, Markaz-ud-Dawa-wal-Irshad (MDI) — a Sunni anti-U.S. missionary organization. One of the three largest and best-trained groups fighting in Kashmir against India, it is not connected to a political party. The group has conducted a number of operations against Indian troops and civilian targets in Kashmir since 1993. Almost all LT cadres are foreigners — mostly Pakistanis from seminaries across the country and Afghan veterans of the Afghan wars. Uses assault rifles, light and heavy machineguns, mortars, explosives, and rocket propelled grenades. NOT a Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) but listed as "active" during 2000.
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Old 10-01-2009, 21:23   #54
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PHILLIPPINES


NAME: Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: 1991.

GOALS: Promote an independent Islamic state in western Mindanao and the Sulu Archipelago, areas in the southern Philippines heavily populated by Muslims.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: Kidnapped more than 30 foreigners, including a U.S. citizen, in 2000.

STRENGTH: 200 core fighters and more than 2,000 supporters.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Mainly southern Philippines with members occasionally traveling to Manila. Operated in Malaysia in 2000.

AFFILIATIONS: Probably receives support from Islamic extremists in the Middle East and South Asia. Some have ties to Mujahidin in Afghanistan.

COMMENTS: Smallest and most radical of the Islamic separatist groups operating in the southern Philippines. The group split from the Moro National Liberation Front in 1991. A Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.

SOUTH AFRICA


NAME: Qibla and People Against Gangsterism and Drugs (PAGAD)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: Qibla: 1980s; PAGAD: 1996.

GOALS: Qibla: Establish an Islamic state in South Africa; PAGAD: Fight drug lords in Cape Town. The two groups share anti-Western stance as well as some members and leadership, and promote greater political voice for South African Muslims.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: Qibla protests U.S. policies toward the Muslim world through its radio station 786. PAGAD is suspected of conducting hundreds of bombings and other violent actions.

STRENGTH: Qibla: 250; PAGAD: at least 50 gunmen, and larger than Qibla.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Cape Town, South Africa.

AFFILIATIONS: Probably have ties to Islamic extremists in the Middle East.

COMMENTS: Often uses names such as Muslims Against Global Oppression (MAGO) and Muslims Against Illegitimate Leaders (MAIL) when launching anti-Western campaigns. NOT a Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO), but listed as "active" during 2000.
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Old 10-01-2009, 21:25   #55
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SYRIA


NAME: Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: 1967.

GOALS: Oppose current negotiations with Israel. Promote national unity and the reinvigoration of the PLO.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: None.

STRENGTH: 800.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and the occupied territories.

AFFILIATIONS: Receives safe haven and some logistic assistance from Syria.

COMMENTS: Joined the Alliance of Palestinian Forces (APF) to and suspended participation in the PLO. Broke away from the APF, along with the DFLP, in 1996 over ideological differences. A Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.



NAME: Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC)

GOALS: Oppose Arafat's PLO.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: None.

STRENGTH: Several hundred.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Europe, Middle East, southern Lebanon, Israel, West Bank, and Gaza Strip. Headquartered in Damascus with bases in Lebanon.

AFFILIATIONS: Receives logistic and military support from Syria and financial support from Iran.

COMMENTS: Known for cross-border terrorist attacks into Israel using unusual means. A Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.



UNITED STATES


NAME: Jamaat ul-Fuqra

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: Early 1980s.

GOALS: Purify Islam through violence.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: Assassinations and fire-bombings across the United States in the 1980s. Members in the United States have been convicted of criminal violations, including murder and fraud.

STRENGTH: Unknown.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: North America, Pakistan.

AFFILIATIONS: None.

COMMENTS: Members have purchased isolated rural compounds in North America to live communally, practice their faith, and insulate themselves from Western culture.
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Old 10-01-2009, 21:25   #56
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UZBEKISTAN


NAME: Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)

DATE STARTED/FIRST ACTIVE: Unknown..

GOALS: Oppose Uzbekistani President Islom Karimov's secular regime and establish an Islamic state in Uzbekistan.

MAIN ANTI-U.S. ACTIVITIES TO DATE: Took hostages on several occasions in 1999 and 2000, including four U.S. citizens. The group's propaganda includes anti-Western and anti-Israeli rhetoric.

STRENGTH: Militants probably number in the thousands.

OPERATIONAL LOCATIONS: Militants based in Afghanistan and Tajikistan. Area of operation includes Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Afghanistan.

AFFILIATIONS: Other Islamic extremist groups in Central and South Asia.

COMMENTS: A U.S. Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) listed as "active" during 2000.

http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/terrorist-groups.cfm
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Old 10-01-2009, 21:29   #57
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I'm glad it's just al-Qaeda we're concerned with. It makes me wonder what Professor Telhami is reading when he makes a statement like this one:

It is primarily al-Qaeda and its allies as organizations that must be defeated. It is not terrorism broadly and it is not Islamism broadly. Professor Telhami


Who were the "islamic" terrorists that held 50 Americans 444 days? Oh, right, that was an islamic republic, not a islamic terrorist group.

Funny we forget so quickly.

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Old 10-01-2009, 21:34   #58
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TS, you forgot to mention Jemaah Islamiyah and many others
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Old 10-01-2009, 21:47   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfire View Post
TS, you forgot to mention Jemaah Islamiyah and many others
I know there are dozens of other islamic terrorists groups, I was merely pointing out that islam and it's followers are a global threat and one we as a nation have faced for nearly half a century. There is no "one" islamic terrorist group, islam spawns violence.
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Old 10-02-2009, 00:32   #60
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C'mon Team Sgt, quit filling this thread with examples and just wax poetic about what Islam could be (but never really has been) and not what it is in practice.
The Ummah divide the world into two geographic entities: Dar iL Harb and Dar iL Salaam. These are the most basic and common of terms to describe the Muslim/NonMuslim world.
The first Dar il Harb means the "place or house of war" these are non Muslim ruled countries wher Islam is not yet supreme. The term war is not lightly used in Islam but is taken literally to mean that Islam , by virtue of it's tenets, must war with secular societies and will eventually triumph.
Dar iL Salaam is the 'place of peace' where Islam already is the law/religion of the land.
Even peaceful Muslims understand this most basic concept.
Even peaceful Muslims must side doctrinally at least with radicals they actually may personally disapprove of.
There in lies the rub.
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