NSA reportedly collecting phone records of millions, though officials had denied hold

[PRB]

A dissenting point of view.
This NSA program has been in place for years.
It consists of computers screening calls looking for trends/patterns ID'd by the NSA...jihadi sites etc. Looking where when, not content.
When and if a hit comes up they still must get a court order to investigate that individual phone number.
I don't see a way round this one.
I know in light of the other issues...IRS, news guys targeted etc it makes everything suspect.

[badshot]

Yes you do need to be very careful dipsh.t. Your boss (actually, us) should take you in an office, close the door and ask "What the f.ck are you doing?"
"You took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution, what happened to that?"

You guys are really a disappointment over there. Use the law as it was intended instead of being lazy and trying to scare the weak with the terrorism line. Thought we crushed them? Or is the threat folks whom stand by the Second Amendment or think the GOV is too big. If you stop and think clearly about it you'll see you have shown to all Americans it is too big and we definitely need to protect our liberties.

With that said I cannot help but laugh at you, really, for thinking we are naive and that you have our trust; because we are not and don't...You've Earned it...

[spherojon]

Originally Posted by badshot

Yes you do need to be very careful dipsh.t. Your boss (actually, us) should take you in an office, close the door and ask "What the f.ck are you doing?"
"You took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution, what happened to that?"

You guys are really a disappointment over there. Use the law as it was intended instead of being lazy and trying to scare the weak with the terrorism line. Thought we crushed them? Or is the threat folks whom stand by the Second Amendment or think the GOV is too big. If you stop and think clearly about it you'll see you have shown to all Americans it is too big and we definitely need to protect our liberties.

With that said I cannot help but laugh at you, really, for thinking we are naive and that you have our trust; because we are not and don't...You've Earned it...

**cough** you know some of his employees are on this forum right?

[badshot]

Originally Posted by spherojon

**cough** you know some of his employees are on this forum right?

So what? They catalog this site as well...probably already on the 'idiot list'

What country am I in?

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by PRB

A dissenting point of view.
This NSA program has been in place for years.
It consists of computers screening calls looking for trends/patterns ID'd by the NSA...jihadi sites etc. Looking where when, not content.
When and if a hit comes up they still must get a court order to investigate that individual phone number.
I don't see a way round this one.
I know in light of the other issues...IRS, news guys targeted etc it makes everything suspect.

Agree, in principle CSM. But as you said, in light of the recent revelations about the IRS, DoJ, etc. this is very troubling. I was watching a program this past weekend (can't remember what one - senior moment ) that was describing the new facility being built for the NSA in Utah. The capabilities there will be enough to monitor every (yup, I said every) electronic communication coming into and out of CONUS. The memory capacity of this new facility was graphically represented as exceeding that from enough i-phones that if stacked one on top of the other the stack would reach the moon!

The former NSA Director, LTG Michael Hayden, cautioned that with this kind of capability the transition to totalitarian state is nothing more than a "flip of a switch". A very, very sobering thought. Especially in light of the current events.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

[badshot]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

Agree, in principle CSM. But as you said, in light of the recent revelations about the IRS, DoJ, etc. this is very troubling. I was watching a program this past weekend (can't remember what one - senior moment ) that was describing the new facility being built for the NSA in Utah. The capabilities there will be enough to monitor every (yup, I said every) electronic communication coming into and out of CONUS. The memory capacity of this new facility was graphically represented as exceeding that from enough i-phones that if stacked one on top of the other the stack would reach the moon!

The former NSA Director, LTG Michael Hayden, cautioned that with this kind of capability the transition to totalitarian state is nothing more than a "flip of a switch". A very, very sobering thought. Especially in light of the current events.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

And what got me going is that I had a lot respect for the NSA (integrity, honesty, cool computers) but the current director not two months ago said we don't store data on U.S citizens as per their directive. Would have been much better to just say we don't discuss our operations, unless something changed not under your control since that statement. If it has than I apologize for previous tarse comment.

Though I know they have higher standards in many respects, it's way too broad...

[PRB]

Trapper, in light of recent developments...makes everything suspect. That program, if IF executed as designed is a good tool...but under the present admin who knows who gets what info.

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

The former NSA Director, LTG Michael Hayden, cautioned that with this kind of capability the transition to totalitarian state is nothing more than a "flip of a switch". A very, very sobering thought. Especially in light of the current events.

They don't have control until boots on the ground have control.
They are at a severe force-ratio disadvantage when it comes to actual boots.

I think all of these leaks about the surveillance state are deliberate leaks.
They are desperate and trying to leverage fear and the illusion of omniscience in order to maintain control.

The simple facts are: they can't get us all, and they need us to produce.
Government power isn't waxing, it is waning.

[Surf n Turf]

These revelations were not unexpected. From the beginning of the Bluffdale facility announcement it was clear that the only logical use of the place was massive data collection, analysis, and decryption activities, with every sign of a domestic component.

What was a surprise, to me, was the acknowledgement today that the communications of the JUDICIAL AND LEGESLATIVE Branches of our government had also been collected (and analyzed ???).

Time for a “tin foil” hat moment, but does anyone think that Roberts vote on Obamacare will be found in Utah.

Concerned, but not filling magazines yet
SnT

[badshot]

Originally Posted by PRB

That program, if IF executed as designed is a good tool..

How does it pass the constitutional and their guidelines test?

[35NCO]

Normally I am with this forum 100% on most issues. This one I am unsure of for a couple reasons.

One, agree with PRB.

Two the Patriot act may have been "Bush's fault" simply because he signed it, but it's actually Biden's little wet dream. The Omnibus Counterterrorism Bill of 1995 was introduced by Biden. The Patriot acts main points come from that bill and the Clinton administration. Yet another group of real winners, I know. Either way, I do not feel Bush really put a whole lot more work into something the previous Admin already had ready to go. So can you complain about Bush in the context of the law? I do not think so. I think it would be more appropriate in the focus on reactive leadership. Bush had to make some quick moves to start hunting down these bad guys. This law was the best way to do it. It was there and available, so he signed it and moved on. Many of those our nation has hunted down was largely in part to the passing of the bill. That intel boost turned out to be exceptionally useful in quick and efficient hunting of bad guys.

There IS this current connection to the current administration in that Biden was a big part of that process and that Obama has vastly expanded it since.
I however, do not believe that the metadata is being used for anything it should not be.

I as well understand everyone is pissed about a lot of current events. I would also caution that I am sure many members of this forum are aware, just because something is classified does not mean it is really all that interesting. As well, just because something is classified does not really mean it is a direct conspiracy against you personally.

This kind of behavior of collection has been going on since the inception of electronic surveillance. There is absolutely no reason anyone should be surprised. Think of it this way, if the metadata system of intel was suddenly completely put to an end and an analyst could no longer connect A-B, there would no longer be any hunting of bad guys. It would put a real end to a lot of CT missions very quickly.

I feel like the articles were a troll in the news just trying to be sensational again to get everyone all upset. Or perhaps a politically motivated distraction from other issues...

Another final thought, it is as if a soldier were to be asked to turn their guns on other US citizens is it not? Think that the majority of analysts that work in the positions in question are typically military. To make what is implied by many of you possible, you would have to have some seriously bad apples. I really do not believe it has gotten that bad yet that I can not trust my brothers in uniform to do the right thing....Just say'in.

Biden and the widely unknown history of the Patriot Act:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10...dStoriesArea.0

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...4:SN00390:@@@K

[alelks]

946744_570285512993983_1188120475_n.jpg

[Utah Bob]

If it isn't the Chinese it's our own government.

[MR2]

I'm getting a good feeling about my Guillotine, LLC stock holdings...

[badshot]

Looking forward to them running that Useful Tool (Expert System) on our Health Records, maybe do some cross referencing on our Phone and Power usage just for some extra detail, then add the below crap:

<snip>
The National Security Agency and the FBI are tapping directly into the central servers of nine leading U.S. Internet companies, extracting audio and video chats, photographs, e-mails, documents, and connection logs that enable analysts to track foreign targets, according to a top-secret document obtained by The Washington Post

http://m.washingtonpost.com/investig...y.html?hpid=z1

Should be interesting...Thanks for the Stock tip mr2