Social Impact of Wuhan Virus

[Flagg]

Originally Posted by WarriorDiplomat

I think you are missing the point here the western societies are the ones in turmoil not so much the Russians or Chinese

It does depend on the definition or category of turmoil.

I strongly suspect the Russians are going to be hurting badly too.

Their government budget cashflow has been vapourized(circa 50-75%) with the collapse of OPEC price control.

They have, at best, 2 years foreign national reserves to cover loss of government budget.

Too soon to tell on Chinese economic re-start.

But China and Russia foreign policy will be 100% incongruent when it comes to energy policy.

Warning: infantry talking Econ.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by WarriorDiplomat

It isn't the control it has it is the response of western society propagated by the medias sensationalism and the resulting outcome from this.......it was an accidental release and the response was unexpected is possible.....the intentional release and the same result and response was a unexpected reaction....or this was a recce by fire scenario.....no matter how you look at it the response and current chaos is the issue as much as the virus. Case in point the media is doing a great job of spreading fear and panic just today they reported 32,000 reported cases so I went to the CDC for its most current and they say 15,000+....the culture of western society has just shown its soft underbelly to an opposing ideology

The 30k plus number you heard, is a number being reported by CNN, the John Hopkins Tracking Corona Virus Map and sites like Worldmeters.info. The John Hopkins Map is said to be in "Real Time". Reminds me of the polling data and interactive maps from the 2016 election.


Sources for the John Hopkins Map:

What are the sources of data informing the dashboard?

The data sources include the World Health Organization, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the European Center for Disease Prevention and Control, the National Health Commission of the People’s Republic of China, local media reports, local health departments, and the DXY, one of the world’s largest online communities for physicians, health care professionals, pharmacies and facilities.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map-faq.html

Another website livescience.com as 3/22/2020 was reporting ABOUT 26,747 confirmed cases in the US.

The University of Minnesota has list of interactive maps:

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/maps-visuals

Running through the list there are 3 groups and these groups are reporting numbers of cases in the US as 30k Plus, 20k plus or 15k plus.

CNN reported the "Grim Milestone" of over 32,000 confirmed cases yesterday, but gave no source for the number. CNN also report the number of conformed cases in NY was over 15k.

To put things into perspective, the "Grim Milsteone" of 32k plus of confirmed in the US is not even close to 1% of the population. The 15k plus of confirmed cases in New York is far below 1% of the state population, in fact all the numbers being reported in each individual state are all far below 1% of the State's population. In the Great State of Kansas, the KDHE reports 975 deaths due to Influenza and Pneumonia, and 2 deaths from the Corona virus. Gov. Kelly (D) is officially shutting down at least 2 counties, Johnson and Wyandotte for 30days beginning tomorrow, in a State with 65 confirmed cases (I thought there were no tests?) and 2 deaths.

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by tonyz

Will Italy ever trust China again ? Should the EU? Never. Communists have a tendency to treat life very cheaply...and the chicoms are no different despite their cheap labor, cheap products and cheap loans. Fuck ‘em - they are parasites that will kill the host in a heartbeat. They have been exposed on the world stage for what they are to any thinking person. Now, we need to get this country back to work as soon as we can !

Not so fast. I am given daily update on China's soft power projection in the wake of devastation in the EU and everywhere else. China sent respirators, ventilators, masks, testing kits, and even doctors to Italy and various hard-hit areas. So far, at least in my own research, not word on similar move by US.

Between this and the twitter spread of US troops starting COVID in wuhan , China is doing its best to turn the narrative around.
Time will tell if they are successful, but we may be helping them unintentionally.

[tonyz]

True, China sent stuff to Italy, but China has to protect its sizable investment in Italy (see JJ’s post regarding this in other threads). China was into Italy - big time.

In all fairness, we are months behind China in this - thanks to China.

China is, as usual, using its propaganda arm to deflect from its own culpability.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by tonyz

True, China sent stuff to Italy, but China has to protect its sizable investment in Italy (see JJ’s post regarding this in other threads). China was into Italy - big time.

In all fairness, we are [months] years behind China in this - thanks to [China] the last three US administrations starting with Clinton.

China is, as usual, using its propaganda arm to deflect from its own culpability.

Fixed that for you.

Beginning with Clinton in the 90s the globalization of China unabated by US foreign policy in SEA the Pacific and elsewhere into parts west until buying up large amounts of EU debt China has been a destabilizing force around the world for the past three decades - at least.

ETA: re paragraph one: my wife just got finished reading a Thai news source where a Thai-Chinese doctor working with a team sent to Milan by China to help out reports that Italy’s continued outbreak and high infection and death toll resulted from them not changing their cultural norms even after the country was reporting very high rates of infection. Specifically - they continued going out to pubs, restaurants and social meetings and continued greeting each other with hugs, kisses and handshakes.

[tonyz]

Thanks ODNT.

The following might provide some additional insight into the depth of China’s influence in Europe.

The EU was becoming uncomfortable with China prior to the China Virus.

After the pandemic - sparked by China...well...I’ll be as polite as I can...Fuck China.

On China’s Expanding Influence in Europe and Eurasia

PHILIPPE LE CORREMAY 09, 2019TESTIMONY: TESTIMONY BEFORE THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
Source:

https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/0...asia-pub-79094

[tonyz]

On China protecting its investment in Italy.

The China Virus should divide the EU generally and Italy specifically from China.

If I set your house aflame...its crumbling, burning down...thousands are dying... but eventually I send a couple of firemen...should you trust me ‘cause I sent a couple firemen ? You better believe I want America to beat China over the head with this.

“Many analysts say Beijing is also seeking to divide the EU, which is concerned with a rising China. These divisions were apparent even within the Italian government. The powerful interior minister, Matteo Salvini, questioned the deal, and his party successfully pushed for a watered-down version that limits Chinese involvement in telecommunications and other sensitive areas.”

China’s Belt and Road Gets a Win in Italy
By Andrew Chatzky
March 27, 2019

https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/chinas-...gets-win-italy

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by Paslode

The 30k plus number you heard, is a number being reported by CNN, the John Hopkins Tracking Corona Virus Map and sites like Worldmeters.info. The John Hopkins Map is said to be in "Real Time". Reminds me of the polling data and interactive maps from the 2016 election.


Sources for the John Hopkins Map:



https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map-faq.html

Another website livescience.com as 3/22/2020 was reporting ABOUT 26,747 confirmed cases in the US.

The University of Minnesota has list of interactive maps:

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/maps-visuals

Running through the list there are 3 groups and these groups are reporting numbers of cases in the US as 30k Plus, 20k plus or 15k plus.

CNN reported the "Grim Milestone" of over 32,000 confirmed cases yesterday, but gave no source for the number. CNN also report the number of conformed cases in NY was over 15k.

To put things into perspective, the "Grim Milsteone" of 32k plus of confirmed in the US is not even close to 1% of the population. The 15k plus of confirmed cases in New York is far below 1% of the state population, in fact all the numbers being reported in each individual state are all far below 1% of the State's population. In the Great State of Kansas, the KDHE reports 975 deaths due to Influenza and Pneumonia, and 2 deaths from the Corona virus. Gov. Kelly (D) is officially shutting down at least 2 counties, Johnson and Wyandotte for 30days beginning tomorrow, in a State with 65 confirmed cases (I thought there were no tests?) and 2 deaths.

I get it but of the official sites to choose from they choose the most inflated.....this is an age old trick for maximum impact and speaks to the political maneuvering supported by a complicit media

[GratefulCitizen]

One big area of social impact may be the waning of third wave feminism.
How many of those "strong independent women who don't need no man" will suddenly recalculate?

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Fixed that for you.

reports that Italy’s continued outbreak and high infection and death toll resulted from them not changing their cultural norms even after the country was reporting very high rates of infection.

Specifically - they continued going out to pubs, restaurants and social meetings and continued greeting each other with hugs, kisses and handshakes.

My daughter talked to her father-in-law in Naples yesterday. He is 77yo and like most VFOGs, a bit of a butt head.

The fear is real now. People are very concerned. No food shortages or other commodities. BUT

One of the EU's "problems" is most families live in small flats and have very small kitchens that lack space for more than a day or two's perishables. So they shop daily. They also are more inclined to shop fresh everything and avoid frozen because of refrigeration constraints.

Also, They eat out frequently for the same reasons..

In the summer it gets HOT and 99.9% don't have AC..

This exacerbates the problem of human contact and viral spread.

If you haven't been there in a while. Here is a small (800 sq ft) flat in Naples for 500,000 EU. It is a problem at all levels of the social spectrum.

https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=360210

[Old Dog New Trick]

JJ

I hope they are well and avoid this. Prayers out.

Italy as with most of Europe and that entire continent lacks genuine medical infrastructure like we have here in the USA or Japan, and other newer first world countries. Outside of Rome, Milan, Naples or other large metropolitan centers they are likely to not have more than a 50 bed hospital for a 100,000 more or less population or 50 remote villages. They rely on small clinics and doctors that do house calls. They also die at home surrounded by family.

It’s apples and oranges to compare us to anyone else and no one is going to be able to do what China did in a matter of weeks to build hardened isolating facilities. (Or death chambers covered for satellite protection)

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

JJ

I hope they are well and avoid this. Prayers out.

Italy as with most of Europe and that entire continent lacks genuine medical infrastructure like we have here in the USA

Thanks,,

Au contraire mon frère

They have the Superior FREE Social Medicine System, while us retards continue to think an open market for-profit medical system is good.

[GratefulCitizen]

Social impacts may include a significant long term increase in homeschooling and telecommuting.
These could, in turn, greatly affect where people choose to live.

Where people choose to live will affect tax bases for state and local jurisdictions.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

One of the EU's "problems" is most families live in small flats and have very small kitchens that lack space for more than a day or two's perishables. So they shop daily. They also are more inclined to shop fresh everything and avoid frozen because of refrigeration constraints. Also, They eat out frequently for the same reasons.

That sounds a lot like NYC, Boston, LA, San Fran, and a host of other large, dense, urban areas in the US.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Razor

That sounds a lot like NYC, Boston, LA, San Fran, and a host of other large, dense, urban areas in the US.

Which makes transmission spread happen rather quickly (á la cruise ship with with 4,200 pax and crew practicing bad social behavior during quarantine/isolation.)

I’ll still standby my argument that a vast majority of known/reported cases will recover without medical intervention and triage needs to remain a critical factor in who goes to the hospital and who goes home to their bedroom.