03-31-2020, 11:50
|
#781
|
Guerrilla
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 473
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctom54
A really really bad idea. CPAP and BiPAP and Nebulizers all aerosolize the COVID-19 and make it much more transmittable. That is exactly what happened in WA state at the LTC facility.
O2 concentrators are fine.
|
Thanks for this. Im in arguments with my 83 year old mother who insists on donating and delivering her 2 CPAP machines after Coumo says the State will buy them.
__________________
"Unrewarded genius is common. Persistence alone is omnipotent". Calvin Coolidge
"The wicked flee even when none pursueth". Proverbs 28:1
|
twistedsquid is offline
|
|
03-31-2020, 12:02
|
#782
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,578
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctom54
A really really bad idea. CPAP and BiPAP and Nebulizers all aerosolize the COVID-19 and make it much more transmittable. That is exactly what happened in WA state at the LTC facility.
O2 concentrators are fine.
|
Doc, thanks for this information.
|
Joker is offline
|
|
03-31-2020, 12:05
|
#783
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,403
|
__________________
mugwump
“Klaatu barada nikto”
|
mugwump is offline
|
|
03-31-2020, 12:14
|
#784
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western WI
Posts: 6,824
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctom54
A really really bad idea. CPAP and BiPAP and Nebulizers all aerosolize the COVID-19 and make it much more transmittable. That is exactly what happened in WA state at the LTC facility.
O2 concentrators are fine.
|
That incident in WA I recall reading about. I would think that someone using an Albuterol nebulizer as a maint med could find an order to self-quarantine putting them between a rock & hard place. I suppose since the entire household comes under the quarantine it would be moot, but vigorous dispersion of the virus (if positive) while using a nebulizer can't be a good thing anywhere.
Further, our family doc & the wife's RT's advise against folks arbitrarily turning up their O2 concentrators due to potential "O2 flooding" if a person is a CO2 retainer, as I imagine many with COPD are. Leave this shit to the pro's; that's why RT's and Pulmo specialists get the big bucks, no?
__________________
"Civil Wars don't start when a few guys hunt down a specific bastard. Civil Wars start when many guys hunt down the nearest bastards."
The coin paid to enforce words on parchment is blood; tyrants will not be stopped with anything less dear. - QP Peregrino
|
Badger52 is offline
|
|
03-31-2020, 13:52
|
#785
|
Asset
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctom54
A really really bad idea. CPAP and BiPAP and Nebulizers all aerosolize the COVID-19 and make it much more transmittable. That is exactly what happened in WA state at the LTC facility.
O2 concentrators are fine.
|
I use a bi-pap nightly and would like to understand this a bit more. Are you saying that if I were to have Covid-19 (with or without symptoms) and use the bi-pap, I am putting others in my household at more risk of infection?
|
TACJAM is offline
|
|
03-31-2020, 15:52
|
#786
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pineland
Posts: 168
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TACJAM
I use a bi-pap nightly and would like to understand this a bit more. Are you saying that if I were to have Covid-19 (with or without symptoms) and use the bi-pap, I am putting others in my household at more risk of infection?
|
Yes, your bipap will aerosolize your respiratory secretions and increase the risk of transmission, which is why we have essentially stopped doing BiPap in the ER.
-E
__________________
Medicina Bona Locis Malis
|
ender18d is offline
|
|
03-31-2020, 16:55
|
#787
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northwest AR
Posts: 490
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TACJAM
I use a bi-pap nightly and would like to understand this a bit more. Are you saying that if I were to have Covid-19 (with or without symptoms) and use the bi-pap, I am putting others in my household at more risk of infection?
|
YES. BiPAP and CPAP turn a DROPLET transmitted infection into an AIRBORNE transmitted infection.
» What is transmission by droplet contact?
Some diseases can be transferred by infected droplets contacting surfaces of the eye, nose, or mouth. This is referred to as droplet contact transmission. Droplets containing microorganisms can be generated when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks. Droplets can also be generated during certain medical procedures, such as bronchoscopy. Droplets are too large to be airborne for long periods of time, and quickly settle out of air.
Droplet transmission can be reduced with the use of personal protective barriers, such as face masks and goggles. SARS and COVID-19 are examples of diseases capable of droplet contact transmission.
» What is airborne transmission?
Airborne transmission refers to situations where droplet nuclei (residue from evaporated droplets) or dust particles containing microorganisms can remain suspended in air for long periods of time. These organisms must be capable of surviving for long periods of time outside the body and must be resistant to drying. Airborne transmission allows organisms to enter the upper and lower respiratory tracts.
Diseases capable of airborne transmission include:
Tuberculosis
Chickenpox
COVID-19 with CPAP, nebulizers, suctioning etc
__________________
"For exercise I recommend vigorous walking... and carrying a gun. The gun’s weight will increase the level of exercise and the possession of a gun on a walk produces real confidence."
Thomas Jefferson
|
doctom54 is offline
|
|
03-31-2020, 17:36
|
#788
|
Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 137
|
This is being used in the Detroit area as necessary. It converts the bipap to a closed ventilator system.
I am not an RT, just passing this along.
https://www.facebook.com/54721548878...2750/?vh=e&d=n
|
Cynic is offline
|
|
03-31-2020, 17:51
|
#789
|
Asset
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ender18d
Yes, your bipap will aerosolize your respiratory secretions and increase the risk of transmission, which is why we have essentially stopped doing BiPap in the ER.
-E
|
Thank you for this information. I had not heard this before and will have to consider whether and how to modify my bi-pap usage.
|
TACJAM is offline
|
|
03-31-2020, 17:52
|
#790
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 7,107
|
Speaking of CPAP
Read this article today. Would this be any "better" for patients with the virus?
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52087002
__________________
My Heroes wear camouflage.
|
Gypsy is offline
|
|
03-31-2020, 17:53
|
#791
|
Asset
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctom54
YES. BiPAP and CPAP turn a DROPLET transmitted infection into an AIRBORNE transmitted infection.
» What is transmission by droplet contact?
Some diseases can be transferred by infected droplets contacting surfaces of the eye, nose, or mouth. This is referred to as droplet contact transmission. Droplets containing microorganisms can be generated when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks. Droplets can also be generated during certain medical procedures, such as bronchoscopy. Droplets are too large to be airborne for long periods of time, and quickly settle out of air.
Droplet transmission can be reduced with the use of personal protective barriers, such as face masks and goggles. SARS and COVID-19 are examples of diseases capable of droplet contact transmission.
» What is airborne transmission?
Airborne transmission refers to situations where droplet nuclei (residue from evaporated droplets) or dust particles containing microorganisms can remain suspended in air for long periods of time. These organisms must be capable of surviving for long periods of time outside the body and must be resistant to drying. Airborne transmission allows organisms to enter the upper and lower respiratory tracts.
Diseases capable of airborne transmission include:
Tuberculosis
Chickenpox
COVID-19 with CPAP, nebulizers, suctioning etc
|
Thank you for this response. Very informative and, as I replied to ender, I will have to consider whether and how to modify my bi-pap usage.
|
TACJAM is offline
|
|
04-01-2020, 13:11
|
#792
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 18 yrs upstate NY, 30 yrs South Florida, 20 yrs Conch Republic, now chasing G-Kids in NOVA & UK
Posts: 11,901
|
Quandary:
It looks like some city-state-federal agencies are getting ready to recommend that EVERYBODY wear an N95 or equivalent mask any time they are out.
SO,, Due to the short supply, I started looking around to see if the "single-use" masks could be sanitized for reuse?
Two scenarios:
1) The medical community is desperate, but they may have auto-claves and other methods to affect the cleaning. Stuff us pions don't have access to.
2)If the rumor is correct & enacted, the rest of us need a mask plan that does not acerbate the current shortage for the medical communities.. Additionally, we may be wearing the mask and not be infected nor near anybody that is.
While looking, I found this gem from 2009.
Opine??
Please remember, I do have a BSA 1st Aide Badge, so be nice with your comments
Quote:
Ann Occup Hyg. 2009 Nov; 53(8): 815–827.
Published online 2009 Oct 4. doi: 10.1093/annhyg/mep070
PMCID: PMC2781738
PMID: 19805391
Evaluation of Five Decontamination Methods for Filtering Facepiece Respirators
Dennis J. Viscusi, corresponding author1 Michael S. Bergman,2 Benjamin C. Eimer,2 and Ronald E. Shaffer1,*
Author information Article notes Copyright and License information Disclaimer
This article has been cited by other articles in PMC.
Abstract
Concerns have been raised regarding the availability of National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH)-certified N95 filtering facepiece respirators (FFRs) during an influenza pandemic.
One possible strategy to mitigate a respirator shortage is to reuse FFRs following a biological decontamination process to render infectious material on the FFR inactive.
However, little data exist on the effects of decontamination methods on respirator integrity and performance.
This study evaluated five decontamination methods - ultraviolet germicidal irradiation (UVGI)
- ethylene oxide, vaporized hydrogen peroxide (VHP)
- microwave oven irradiation
- and bleach
Using nine models of NIOSH-certified respirators (three models each of N95 FFRs, surgical N95 respirators, and P100 FFRs) to determine which methods should be considered for future research studies.
Following treatment by each decontamination method, the FFRs were evaluated for changes in physical appearance, odor, and laboratory performance (filter aerosol penetration and filter airflow resistance).
Additional experiments (dry heat laboratory oven exposures, off-gassing, and FFR hydrophobicity) were subsequently conducted to better understand material properties and possible health risks to the respirator user following decontamination.
However, this study did not assess the efficiency of the decontamination methods to inactivate viable microorganisms.
Microwave oven irradiation melted samples from two FFR models.
The remainder of the FFR samples that had been decontaminated had expected levels of filter aerosol penetration and filter airflow resistance.
The scent of bleach remained noticeable following overnight drying and low levels of chlorine gas were found to off-gas from bleach-decontaminated FFRs when rehydrated with deionized water.
UVGI, ethylene oxide (EtO), and VHP were found to be the most promising decontamination methods; however, concerns remain about the throughput capabilities for EtO and VHP.
Further research is needed before any specific decontamination methods can be recommended.
Keywords: decontamination, filtering facepiece respirator, healthcare workers, N95 respirator, pandemic influenza, respirator reuse
link:
|
__________________
Go raibh tú leathuair ar Neamh sula mbeadh a fhios ag an diabhal go bhfuil tú marbh
"May you be a half hour in heaven before the devil knows you’re dead"
|
JJ_BPK is offline
|
|
04-01-2020, 13:53
|
#793
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Occupied America....
Posts: 4,740
|
UVGI and VHP are the ones I've heard being discussed
__________________
"There are more instances of the abridgment of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations"
James Madison
|
Ret10Echo is offline
|
|
04-01-2020, 17:04
|
#794
|
Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,177
|
The N95 masks are reusable until damaged or air flow is restricted.
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
|
PSM is offline
|
|
04-01-2020, 18:14
|
#795
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northwest AR
Posts: 490
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_BPK
Quandary:
It looks like some city-state-federal agencies are getting ready to recommend that EVERYBODY wear an N95 or equivalent mask any time they are out.
SO,, Due to the short supply, I started looking around to see if the "single-use" masks could be sanitized for reuse?
Two scenarios:
1) The medical community is desperate, but they may have auto-claves and other methods to affect the cleaning. Stuff us pions don't have access to.
2)If the rumor is correct & enacted, the rest of us need a mask plan that does not acerbate the current shortage for the medical communities.. Additionally, we may be wearing the mask and not be infected nor near anybody that is.
While looking, I found this gem from 2009.
Opine??
Please remember, I do have a BSA 1st Aide Badge, so be nice with your comments
|
1) Yes we are desperate! You can NOT autoclave masks or a lot of the other PPE because it destroys it effectiveness.
2) Yes a 2 ply cotton masks keep you from infecting the others around you. The new data out of Singapore (A really great scientific study) show a lot of people are contagious for 1-3 days BEFORE they have symptoms.
It appears UV light and 70C heat will effectively rid PPE of the virus without damage but those studies are still on going.
__________________
"For exercise I recommend vigorous walking... and carrying a gun. The gun’s weight will increase the level of exercise and the possession of a gun on a walk produces real confidence."
Thomas Jefferson
|
doctom54 is offline
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:28.
|
|
|