Does the "Regular Army" hate SF?

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by Utah Bob

I thought it was just the beret and once the big army all got berets too they would be happy and feel all warm and fuzzy.
Guess not.

UB,I guess it's because we had to "earn" ours where they have it "issued" to them......

Big Teddy

[mojaveman]

While a member of 5th SFG I can remember a few times when I experienced animosity from non SF personnel while in their presence.

I'll call it plain old jealousy.

[Danimal18C]

Yeah... my definition of professionalism has always been based on performance, not appearance. Unfortunately, the modern military cares more about the perception of professionalism, than duty. You have members of our military that can't pass a PT test, and can't qualify with their weapon unless someone shoots at their target with them, but as long as they look 670-1... they are professional soldiers. Most SF guys smoke the PT test, qualify expert on multiple weapon systems, but get labled unprofessional because their hair is a little long, or they wear sunglasses on their head. I've never understood this logic, since it's SF that is doing most of the fighting. In both OIF and OEF I saw a lot of conventional units trying to appear busy without actually accomplishing anything.

I call it "standing in the corner and juggling."

I'm certainly not saying that there aren't productive and successful conventional units, but I've noticed a nasty attitude in the military that puts more weight on appearance than performance.

I guess I'll just be that shitbag with the oakleys on his head.

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by Cougar6zulu

"The 82nd seems to harbor a great deal of animosity towards the SF community. "[/U]



Got to tell you...... this statement is bullshit..... its across the board at certain echelons

SF and the AA sharing Fort Bragg (and they were there first), Its like the Navy and the Marines - at sea, no way they are going to get along.

Also - back in my day - everybody that got bounced out of SFTG, for one reason or another, usually ended up in the 82nd. Those guys had to learn to get along with their new AA buddies - one easy way to do that was to bad mouth SF.

Conventional animosity toward SF has probably never been topped by the levels of stupidity unleashed upon us during the Haitian Vacation '94-'96 primarily by the 10th Mtn Div commander and his crew. I think Meade was the 2 star. I forget the 1 star's name but he was a booger eating dipshit too and he HATED SF, the Div DCO COL Valenzuela? had a negligent discharge with his 9mm not 10 feet in front of myself and my Team Daddy walking into division HQ one afternoon...a prime example of the level of professionalism at their Division HQ during that time. They had OH58s dedicated to patrolling for SF uniform violations (no shit). They took aerial photographs of cats out without their clay beret on their coconut or without their LBE on and that was it, done deal article 15. Some careers were destroyed down there over friggin uniform violations. It got so bad General Downing, God rest his soul, came down there and told Meade to enjoy his last command because he would be retiring after his trip to Haiti was over.

I saw it again in Afghanistan in 2004. We had a "State" corralled in a village with 1 way out...up the mountain and he was not in a hurry to climb because we had run him hard. The QRF rolled in led by a 10th Mtn Div (again) LTC who decided he was going to not listen to the commander on the ground since it was just an SF Captain... So he put the whole QRF down behind us (well we had already secured it for him...) and started them searching the village even though he was told to drop a squad off up top. Well sure enough dude scooted up the mountain and was gone. We had been on patrol for 11 days, chasing this dude for the last 4 of them, chased him in the snow and ice friggin daily all over the countryside, we finally had him cold, and that turd LTC f***ed it up in a HUGE way. Ugh...

Hmm now I recall another incident with a turd full bird from the 173rd in Iraq too getting into a d*** measuring contest with COL Cleveland about who was who. The first time his troops got in contact (and it was very minor) he backed his ass up and guarded our shit until he had 100% of his stuff on the ground, which took until the shooting was over before he did anything substantial (as far as I recollect) with his brigade of combat *cough* jumpers LOL....so anyway. Gold stars on jumpwings for Iraq are probably already on another thread, but always worth a sneer...

Yeah I've seen conventional jealousy/hatred toward SF a time or two, but I must admit I saw the complete inverse the majority of my career and had overall good relationships with conventional folks with the exceptions of a few turds here and there.

[Light_Fighter]

I can't say about animosity towards SF units in general, or at the higher (BDE and up) levels, all I can comment on is how my company command viewed my volunteering. First I'll give the negative, then I'll try to rationalize it a bit.

After telling them that I was volunteering to go to SFAS I was instantly made the unit armorer. This basically killed my training time by making me always on call and having to miss unit PT to come in and open the arms room for various reasons. They also moved me from my duty position as a squad leader in my MOS to put me in HQ for arms room administration. Basically, I went from filling a 20 level slot in my MOS to a non-MTOE'd slot. Then they added a couple more additional duties to take my time and resisted my going to work out with the SF recruiters for PT (when I had the time and didn't have to be at the arms room). It all culminated when a last minute (okay, not last minute, but it came on the training schedule after I had volunteered) field excercise caused my CO & my 1SG to call my recruiting station to tell them I couldn't go because I had to go to the field.

All this makes it seem like they hated me for going, but I believe they had good intentions. For the unit, at least. As an NCO I can understand the desire of CO's and 1SG's to keep the exemplary NCO's. This is something I've read mentioned a few times already. Also, there is the fear that if one person goes and gets selected then other people may decide to see if it's for them. If multiple people go, the best will be selected and then, to them, it's like their best troops are being syphoned away by SF. Every commander understands that his unit will be deploying soon, and none of them want to lose NCO's (or officers) who have combat experience, are highly motivated and disciplined, and score well on PT tests. Yet these are just the soldiers who if they go to SFAS will likely get selected.

Ultimately, it comes down to your individual unit command. Some will be for it, some neutral, and some against. Regardless of how your command acts, they are probably not against you personally (probably not, there are certain cases...), they just want what's best for their unit, and you are probably among the best in their unit. What I'm trying to say is, try to see it from the other sides point of view before you assume that your unit is trying to screw you.

[Surgicalcric]

Failure To Follow Simple Instructions...

You need to go back and re/read the email you received when you registered here and give it another try.

Here is a hint, your first post shouldn't have been in this thread.

Crip

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by Light_Fighter

. As an NCO I can understand the desire of CO's and 1SG's to keep the exemplary NCO's. . . . If multiple people go, the best will be selected and then, to them, it's like their best troops are being syphoned away by SF. Every commander understands that his unit will be deploying soon, and none of them want to lose NCO's (or officers) who have combat experience, are highly motivated and disciplined, and score well on PT tests.

And especially the modest ones. Still waitin' on that intro Oh, boy. . .

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

This is not unit specific. Most of the army units that think much of themselves are always "threatened" by the supposed "brain drain". Particularly with every joint training exercise they are always embarrassed by the teams crapping on their best efforts. We are the brain drain ..."Duhh"! That leaves them in awe, and jealous. We are the Apex of the warrior societies and they, despite their best efforts, are not.
That is why it is so hard to get anything from them and we generally "take" it.

In essence they hate what they are not...and can't have.

Originally Posted by Blitzzz

This is not unit specific. Most of the army units that think much of themselves are always "threatened" by the supposed "brain drain". Particularly with every joint training exercise they are always embarrassed by the teams crapping on their best efforts. We are the brain drain ..."Duhh"! That leaves them in awe, and jealous. We are the Apex of the warrior societies and they, despite their best efforts, are not.
That is why it is so hard to get anything from them and we generally "take" it.

In essence they hate what they are not...and can't have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iINt2...eature=related

[sleepyhead4]

Having come from a conventional infantry battalion not more than 4 years ago, I was very disappointed in my interactions with 2 infantry battalions in Iraq. The conventional command group rarely supported us (operation/service support) but would constantly ask for our intelligence. And even when we did provide the necessary intelligence, they were very hesitant in backing our kinetic operations. Needless to say, my opinion of my former branch (infantry) was tainted by my experience in Iraq.

[mark46th]

In SE Asia, SF was running indig outfits up to battalion size. It scared the hell out of RA officers when they saw Enlisted men training, equipping and running combat operations on that level...

[head]

Some regular army commanders recognize and appreciate what SF can provide. LTC Mennes had a battalion of 82nd and, upon entering the AO, was "looking for work" in A-stan a couple years ago. He wanted to hit the ground running so he went straight to the SF SOTF - smart move, since we ended up having each of his companies get up to speed at the firebase I was at, use our ranges, stay in our compound, each of the leadership got briefed on the AO, and ended up getting to patrol with the teams. Aside from them eating all our food, the teams were happy with their new "partner force."

Now, if it's the same guy, I hear LTC Mennes is now BC of 1st. Ranger Bn. so he probably has a different mindset than most CO's anyways. Very down-to-earth and even listened to young SF buck sergeants like myself at the time.

[Thurman]

As a civilian, I always wondered about the inevitable rivalries and animosities between units, especially SOF and conventional

I particularly always wondered about the dynamic between the Rangers and SF-- I didn't realize it ran as deep as some of the posts on here illustrate

[Koa18B]

I do agree that there is a lot of things that can lead to an adverse opinions on a soldier deciding to pursue becoming a QP. I had to fight my way just go get out of "Delta Co." Infantry. I had started as the normal gun truck driver, I had requested to go to Air Assault School prior to deploying to Iraq. My CO said "Why? We drive trucks we are not gonna be assaulting in ever you wanna be high speed or something." I had told him that I understood that but I wanted to learn more about the sling-loading operations and the other things that can come into play for a gun-truck in an Air Assault division. He agreed sent me 3 weeks later to AA School. About 5 months in Iraq I was pinned my E-4 and was no longer the "Cherry Driver" I was first truck's gunner and not just lowest man in the truck.

After that first deployment our Battalions HHC Scout's Section was looking to expand to add 4 people. I had been ridiculed so many times by everyone from my squad leader to the platoon sergeant. Eventually even my 1SG who himself had came from a sniper team out at 25th ID. I took it that I was valuable to the team and in one perspective I respected and felt honored I was a valued man in the team but I wanted to express that this is my career and the moves I was making were not for them it was for me, That I appreciated all the things I was taught.

Making it into Scouts had made so many more school's and training events possible. They had sent all 4 of us that made it into the team over to Airborne School and after my deployment with them 2 of us went to Ranger School together. But low and behold once I came back I had been offered to go to Pathfinder School as part of me Re-up. The CO had "lost" my last APFT Score, and had lost my packet for about a month but once it was "found" all was well.

Getting the invite to come to Pathfinder company had to of been the best thing that could have happened in my efforts to become a QP. For numerous reasons, one being the tight knit community, another was that they were very pro-active in attaining your goals and values as a soldier. It was not at all about medals and badges for me. I knew that I wanted to become a QP and felt that I was more mature then those I saw in the recruiter offices that were 17-19yrs old that had just signed 18X contracts and thought they were someone important and somehow better then the 11B sitting next to them.

It seem's that because there is the 160th at Campbell as well as 5th that many commanders in Infantry and Aviation units always have a big bucket of negative shit to pour on you.

My point is, You will always incure some hindering factors especially in 82nd and 101st. For whatever reason being that is just the reality. I had mentioned and had so many conversations with others in SFAS about how long they had waited and how twisted the chain of command had been to them, yet how thankful we all were to just have made it that far. The negative opinions and the doubters can work against you but they can push you even further.

I have always come back to my old D.Co every time I returned from a deployment or when I finished a school. I see my old platoon Sergeant and I let him know though I didn't stay it is because of the lessons learned as a young private that I am accomplishing my goals and dreams.