CrossFit

[Pete]

I searched and saw where CrossFit is mentioned in a number of threads on the board.

This week's Army Times

"The hidden danger of CrossFit"

"Military doctors sound the alarm over 'rhabdo' " pg 4 in the Off Duty section.

I think the concern in the story is over "Intense regimens" and rhabdomyolsis.

[MILON]

I haven't posted for a while, but this story intrigued me and there is more information out there regarding Crossfit and Rhabdo. Just google it. Crossfit has a couple articles in their journal as well, so even they have recognized it as a possibility. After reading their articles I didnt get the sense it was a significant problem, which I found odd, but not surprising. Frankly, when I read about this I was a little shocked. I have been strength coaching at the college level for around 5 years (volunteer, grad assistant, head) and I've NEVER heard of this being discussed in that area of work. Its simply never happened within the strength and conditioning circle I am involved in or outside of it that I know of. It made sense to me, however, in relation to crossfit. I think SF718 is right and crossfit's effectiveness cannot be disputed. Injuries do happen in the weight room and/or PT field, but there is a huge difference between strains, sprains, bumps and bruises and a conditioning that is potentially lethal! Personally, I believe proper oversight is the key here and we cannot completely blame crossfit OR its costumers. Its not hard to get a personal training certificate these days even though you dont really know what you are doing. How many guys/gals have you spoke to who read muscle magazine think they are qualified to give you training advice? I've also seen strength coaches out there who have high levels of education make some pretty stupid errors. We can also say that the client should be smarter (like driving to work in the morning), but the fact remains that the "smart" approach to training isnt always promoted. A puking clown comes to mind here... Crossfit is a highly intense and driven routine with questionable oversite that promotes a never quit attitude, from what I have seen. I believe there would likely be fewer cases of rhabdo from crossfit had proper coaching/supervision been present during their sessions.

[Anevolution]

Originally Posted by SF718

As far as there certification goes, I think that they are attempting to tighten up there certification process by implementing written tests and certifications that expire after a certain period.
Maybe they can put a disclaimer explaining the risks higher on the webpage?

Correct sir. They are starting to do tests and have in the past few months failed a few people. I just did a Crossfit endurance cert and it was instructed a lot better than my level 1. I believe they are trending in a better direction then in the past. Everyone should just keep in mind people who do Crossfit type work outs, don’t DO Crossfit. Formal training in the Olympic lifts is a must.The bodyweight wods are fine, but when you start putting 175 over head the game changes.

V/r
Anevolution

[Hammock]

I began doing Crossfit about a month ago to help recover from a leg fracture. Alarmed by the article, I did a bit of research to try to find out what kind of horrible workout gave the sailor rhabdo.

Here is the workout that led to the lawsuit that is mentioned in the article:

“Makimba”
Three rounds, one each of 15-10-5 reps, for time, of:
Dumbbell Thrusters with 10 lbs
Air Squats
Burpees

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/MakimbaPkg.pdf

If that workout nearly killed a man, the circumstances are an aberration so far outside normal experience--like a freak accident--that it is nearly irrelevant to my training.

Hammock

[kawaishi]

I've been working out at a gym since January that does some CF and I've enjoyed it. The gym is run by a former 1st Force Recon Marine who left the Corps, became a pro triathlete, and had been coaching athletes for over a decade before opening the gym. I only mention that because his background in Recon and his own athletic/coaching experience gives him a good knowledge of applying athletic training to a military based goal. Alot of my opinions reflect knowledge that he (and my college judo coach) shared with me. He holds SF Soldiers in very high regard so he's got some grey matter, right?.

I've experienced some great benefits from CF but many of the CF'ers that I know don't do any other kind of resistance training. I think that's wrong.

First, there is no periodization to the training and, while CF produces results, periodization of training programs has been proven to be the best way to develop a solid, all-around athlete. The arguement I've heard by CF'ers is that jobs like firefighting, law enforcement, and military service have "general" and "random" requirements that don't stress max strength or max speed like athletes. What I'm missing is how CF is random. Everything is for time which means that your heart rate is elevated as you race through at your best pace. That's great conditioning but it produces a certain kind of adaptation even if the exercises are varied. Also, your body will adapt and respond to training so why waste that adaptation by doing random programs that don't build on your success with structure?

Second, the circuit training format doesn't allow for true strength training that is so beneficial to athletic performance. While CF will make you somewhat stronger there is no substitute for lifting near max weight. I use CF but in my endurance-conditioning phase after I've focused on Strength and Power. Guess what? Now I'm using heavier weights for the same CF routines....oh, and I'm running alot faster after all those heavy squats!

Some of the best info that I've seen about periodization is by Tudor Bompa. I recommend his books to everyone.

CF is a great conditioning tool and but its one tool in the toolbox. I will continue to use a CF style workout but as a compliment to a progressive and balanced routine.

[BigJimCalhoun]

I was doing crossfit but did not fit with "the culture of the local training facility". Aside from being cliquey, which I could deal with, they repeatedly played loud rap music with lyrics about raping women. I know other facilities most likely do not play that sort of music but given I was spending $150/month for myself and my son, I thought I could spend my money more wisely.

Though I like crossfit exercises, I like mtnathlete.com and militaryathlete.com better and used to visit them when Rob posted the workouts for free.

[kawaishi]

Broadsword2004, yes it was Cross Fit and there is one other Cross Fit place in town. The one that I'm at actually ended up disassociating with CrossFit. The owner was concerned with alot of pop-up "Cross Fit" gyms around the country and what he may end up being associated with. He's a serious athletic trainer who know's his business very well and, personally, I think that he did not want people to believe he was legit because they saw Cross Fit on his door. He's an accomplished guy who wants to have clients see the value in his knowledge and experience instead of someone else's brand name.

I didn't mean to step on your toes if you like Cross Fit; however, I'm sticking with traditional periodization because it's better for me.

SF718 said something that really made sense to me as to why I believe what I do....knowing where your body is, your limitations, and your individual goals. Cross Fit, while being useful, doesn't address what I need and what I'm going to do. I can make my own training plan better based on sound training principles because I know my goals. I'm working on raw strength so I'm doing big, compound lifts and if I can lift something for 6 reps I add weight. I've been getting stronger because I'm building on the progress. It's all one coordinated effort that focuses on 1 rep-max strength. Shortly I'll be transitioning to Power and after that to a Sport Specific phase that combines all of the built upon training into practical application.

Hey, if you love Cross Fit and it gets you fired up then more power to you! Get out there and train!

[kawaishi]

I would suggest reading about periodization. Louie Simmons and Tudor Bompa are phenomenal.

[MILON]

If I may again, I think Kawaishi hit the nail on the head, "read about periodization", but I would generalize further. READ about training and educate yourself. Really, the issue here is knowing what you are doing or gettin guidance from reliable sources. Tudor Bompa's books are great! Also, books by Yessis, Siff, Verkhoshansky and Zatsiorsky are great, in my opinion. All of these authors are reputable people in the field. Some blogs and websites are great for training, including Crossfit! Some rip on t-nation, but most of the writers there are experienced strength coaches that refer to training as a whole and not just body building. And if you arent willing to educate yourself, get the guidance from an open-minded and properly educated (through experience and formal training) source.

The point I am trying to make is, again what Kawaishi said, crossfit should just be another tool in your performance enhancement tool box. There are so many proven ways of training out there and limiting yourself to just one isnt necessarily the best idea. Of course, if it works, then keep with it, but dont limit yourself and be close minded. It would appear none of the contributers to this particular thread are at all and I think thats spot on! I have met crossfitters and others who only subscribe to one method or mindset and I feel sorry for them. Close-mindedness is not a recipe for success in any area of life, IMO.

SF718, no need for apology, what so ever! I dont think anyone can down play the seriousness of rhabdo and I never thought you did.

[kawika]

Someone from the company over got rhabdo about 3 months ago. He started feeling ill and went to Clark clinic the day after a relatively mild workout(50 power snatches @135) and was found to have rhabdo. In his case however this was the second workout attempted of the day. He was dehydrated and drank copious amounts of coffee the morning off and polished off the workout session with a 6 pack of beer. He's my buddy so I won't say anything to major, but yea pretty ingenious right?

My point is crossfit doesn't have anything to do with it, in fact I would argue the opposite as most of their workouts are less than the 30 minute mark, albeit at a very high intensity. It was much more common when I was running track in that circle than what i've seen in crossfit/military athelete.

[CDG]

Originally Posted by kawika

Someone from the company over got rhabdo about 3 months ago. He started feeling ill and went to Clark clinic the day after a relatively mild workout(50 power snatches @135) and was found to have rhabdo. In his case however this was the second workout attempted of the day. He was dehydrated and drank copious amounts of coffee the morning off and polished off the workout session with a 6 pack of beer. He's my buddy so I won't say anything to major, but yea pretty ingenious right?

My point is crossfit doesn't have anything to do with it, in fact I would argue the opposite as most of their workouts are less than the 30 minute mark, albeit at a very high intensity. It was much more common when I was running track in that circle than what i've seen in crossfit/military athelete.

While his dehydration and post-workout alcohol consumption were very unwise choices, 50 power snatches @ 135# is hardly a mild workout. One of the biggest problems with cases like this is the individual not being able to check their ego and scale things when starting the program. Just because you have the physical ability to perform a workout, doesn't mean you should do it. Example, I recently came off 4 months of following a program that focused on lifting heavy nearly every single day. Even the conditioning workouts were done with heavy weight. Bodyweight stuff rarely came up, and when it did it was nowhere near the amount of reps that some CF workouts prescribe. After finishing that program, my first "regular" CF workout had 100 pull-ups in it. I did it, and I even had the fastest time at the gym that day. However, it was 3 days before I could fully straighten my arms, and it was a week before I could straighten them without pain. I had the ability to do the workout, but it wasn't very smart of me to do so.

[PRB]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

Are you sure that is Crossfit? From the basic fitness article they offer at their website for free, they talk about how for total fitness, an athlete should learn the basics of gymnastics (pushups, dips, pullups, rope climb), then muscle-up, for abdominal work, the L-sit and situps, and handstands, walking on the hands, and handstand pushups.

They also recommend exercises on the gymnastic rings if you have access to them.

In addition to gymnastics, they recommend learning the Olympic lifts (snatch and clean and jerk) and powerlifting (benchpress, barbell squat, and deadlift). These exercises build real strength and power.

They also emphasize that learning the Olympic lifts in particular takes time because of the techniques and strength required. For example, a good clean and jerk requires first a good barbell squat, a good deadlift, a good jerk, then you learn the clean, then you combine the clean with the jerk.

They talk about flexibility as well and stretching.

They say to "regularly learn and play new sports," as sport is the application of fitness. Playing sports develops all the physical qualities at the same time, but only in small amounts. Whereas training will develop specific qualities, but with repetition.

Just a note about handstands...have ayounger cousin, extremely physically fit that can walk on his hands like Payton. After doing this he had, basically, a stroke. The surgeon that worked with him stated that when hand standing the neck hyper extends fwd and that can restrict your arteries severely (did in his case)similar to a blockage.
He recovered after some serious complications but still has issues. Had the classic stroke signs too, blurring vision, face slackness, disoreintation etc.

[Quixote]

I've been doing Crossfit at a local affiliate for about 8 months now. There have been good times, bad times, vomit and syncope. I have to say that I feel much more fit. With that said, I'm not sure if I feel stronger. It seems like the more Crossfit I do, the better I get at Crossfit. There hasn't been a great transition over into run times or 1RM increases.

My eventual goal is to transition to Military Athlete operator sessions, but I'm not strong enough to get over the minimum 100 point score on their fitness test. The biggest hurdle seems to be the lifts, I'm just not strong enough to knock out enough reps.

This led me on a search for a solution, and I would greatly appreciate any advice you guys could pass on. I've been reading about Olympic weightlifting, Rippetoe, and a bunch of other fitness resources, and it got me wondering:

Would I be better served switching to a Starting Strength/Stronglifts 5x5 workout with bodyweight calisthenics (push ups, pull ups, sit ups, and such), running, and rucking mixed in on the off days? The randomization inherent in Crossfit programming seems to be stopping me from building up a solid base of strength.

Originally Posted by BigJimCalhoun

I was doing crossfit but did not fit with "the culture of the local training facility". Aside from being cliquey, which I could deal with, they repeatedly played loud rap music with lyrics about raping women. I know other facilities most likely do not play that sort of music but given I was spending $150/month for myself and my son, I thought I could spend my money more wisely.

Though I like crossfit exercises, I like mtnathlete.com and militaryathlete.com better and used to visit them when Rob posted the workouts for free.

That's just too funny.

Last winter, I entered a local gym for some weight training.

To my surprise, a young man was walking on a treadmill, army shorts, army t-shirt, large ruck sack. When I approached, he smiled and removed his MP3 wire from his ear. It appears that smart soldiers will find a way to continue with training requirements dispite the level of snow outside.

The smile was the near indicator we had recruited the correct candidate.

Good on him.

FYI - the MP3 was playing Russian, second year.

[furry]

I visited the MountainAthlete affiliate in Boulder a few times last summer at the urging of a few friends who are professional climbers in the area. (I climb at a relatively high level, though not getting paid for it.) It was their first experience with a more wholistic conditioning program so they were excited about it.

I, however, was less-than-impressed. I've been oly lifting since high school and incorporated Crossfit style training about 4 years ago. The lady running the place seemed to have little knowledge of biomechanics, training philosophy, and the movements. She has since separated from MA and calls her place "The Alpine Training Center," so perhaps her lack of personal knowledge is not reflective on HQ, although they did 'sanction' her.

The programming did come straight from HQ, and I was also unimpressed. Workouts were typically an hour-long slog session at around %80 intensity. I think the value of CF/CFE is the high intensity, shorter duration met-con training combined with those all-important strength days as noted above. Slugging it out for an hour felt far less productive than a strength session and/or an anerobic metcon at full tilt.

Oh, and I don't care how fit you are, you can't sprint for an hour, so don't tell me you just need to "build up to handle that much volume."