The Adventure Challenge

[Sten]

This is a fantastic book on Lewis and Clark. It covers the trip in great detail and describes many of the challenges.

http://www.amazon.com/Undaunted-Cour.../dp/0684826976

[Team Sergeant]

OK, I've read this from start to finish a few times and I'd like to offer some advice.

I've looked at the packing lists and and the discussion of some of those lists.

For some of you, how do you plan to cross the Mississippi? (and other large rivers?) Does your ruck float? Will a hundred feet of 550 cord allow you to build a boat/raft?

I do hope you're taking into account that you might be hitting the Rockies in the dead of winter...... What's your plan for crossing those mountains?

Those of you taking a southern route, you will be just fine until you hit the western deserts...... I've driven across them and there's no way I'd walk across them.

I would not need a map or compass to cross the United States.... You might want to think about that.

How long can I carry a deer leg before it rots? Or do you expect to hunt "everyday"? I would eat as I walked and learn to live off small game I collect along the way.

As for the weapons I'd carry they would be a .22 pistol with 500 rounds and an M4 with 300 rounds, that's it


TS

[JumpinJoe1010]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

For some of you, how do you plan to cross the Mississippi? (and other large rivers?) Does your ruck float? Will a hundred feet of 550 cord allow you to build a boat/raft?

I do hope you're taking into account that you might be hitting the Rockies in the dead of winter...... What's your plan for crossing those mountains?

As for the weapons I'd carry they would be a .22 pistol with 500 rounds and an M4 with 300 rounds, that's it


TS

Excellent point, because I was pondering that. I would make a raft, ditto on the .22, but was curious of the thoughts of a compound bow since arrows are reusable.

Originally Posted by Kyobanim

What you need is an individual water purification device that treats any freshwater source for microbiological contaminants. These purification devices are like the ones used by campers and backpackers. They can treat up to 500 liters of drinking water without replacement parts and minimal maintenance.

Here's what's available:

Item NSN

Filter unit, water purification, pocket 4610-01-503-4590
Element, filter 4610-01-503-4763
(pocket replacement cartridge)
Filter unit, water purification, pocket 4610-01-503-5260
(Sweetwater Guardian purifier)
Filter unit, water purification, knapsack 4610-01-449-5912

This would purify my water. Food would be a primary concern, which would either be salted or dried. And would need to be hunted every day or two.

Here is my updated packing list, and route plans. It would be a three phase trip based upon weather. First phase would be traveling to the edge of civilization in Western South Carolina, and setting up in a community/trading post to gain skills in hunting trapping, indian affairs. Get to know the locals for the best routes to the Oklahoma territory around Tulsa. Once in that territory, set up for winter. Use skills learned to set up camp, build fur collection for myself and trade. Before leaving sell furs, for money.

Second phase would be to start second leg of journey to cross the plains while cool, and indians are not restless. Get to the passes of route through the Rockies in the summer will be cooler, and set up camp on the West side of Rockies waiting for late summer.

The third phase in the fall would allow me to cross the desert/arrid portions to east California. Also on the West side of the Rockies, find any missions on the west side and learn the best routes to California.

Gold - 2# $25000 2
Boots - 4# x2pair 8
Pants - 1.5# x2pair 3
Blouse - 1.5# x2pair 3
T-shirts - 0.25# 7pair 1.75
Socks - 0.25# 7pair 1.75
Underwear - 0.25# 7pair 1.75
Fleece Top -1.5# 1.5
Knit cap - 0.25# 0.25
Work Gloves - 1# 1
Work Knife - 1# x2 2
Hatchet - 3# 3
Poncho - 0.5# 0.5
Poncho liner - 0.25# 0.25
550 Cord - 5# 3
First Aid Kit - 3# 3
Pack - 5# 5
2qt - 1.5# x2 3
Digital Camera - 1# 1
PDA - 1# 1
Solar Charger - 1# 1
Total Weight 46lbs

[Go Devil]

There hasn't been alot of discussion on the topic of diet.
Many of us have loaded for "bear" and big kills offer great payoff for little investment. This type of meal is feasable if one has to hole-up for a period of time. Packing this amount of fresh food isn't a geat idea in a continent that held a higher population of bear and cougar in the 1700's, not to mention adding this to our maximum weight we are allowed to carry.

Those of us that plan on a shorter time frame would follow good primitive knowledge the natives of this country followed and focus on smaller, high fat content game that is consumed completely during a meal time per day.
Our good friend the coon offers just this type of meal and according to documented history was a main source of fat consumed by native peoples in the Ohio River Valley and regions north. At sometimes 50% body fat this makes alot of sense. Next to coon, bear is the next source of high body fat game if taken in fall or early winter.

I believe I may take a route from the east that meets the major waters of the Ohio River, meet the Mississipi to north of the same state and turn west.

Malaria will definately be a concern as it was still a large problem in Indiana in the mid to late 1800's.

I would definately bring along salt and would consider trading some of the .308
for medical equip.

I would attemt to avoid natives, but the continent was heavily populated at this time. We all know how strangers in the neighborhood make us feel, so don't leave any sign and avoid drawing attention.

Still working on the kit, but it will be very minimal.



Great Topic TR!

[NoRoadtrippin]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

What do you plan to eat and drink?

This is where my current list does hit an issue and obviously it is one of primary importance. If I focus my food on the smaller, higher fat content game mentioned above, then hopefully I don't often have to carry too much weight in food. I'll certainly want to stay away from things like entire deer legs.

For water, the 3L Camelbak each day translates into about 6 lbs. of water. In drier areas, the the two Nalgenes add another 4 lbs. So, this puts me right at the 100 lbs considered to be on the high end of recommended weight.

I'm sure I would quickly find myself wanting to get rid of a few of the lightweight comfort items I have listed in my original list. The ounces do add up quickly.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by JumpinJoe1010

Gold - 2# $25000 2
Boots - 4# x2pair 8
Pants - 1.5# x2pair 3
Blouse - 1.5# x2pair 3
T-shirts - 0.25# 7pair 1.75
Socks - 0.25# 7pair 1.75
Underwear - 0.25# 7pair 1.75
Fleece Top -1.5# 1.5
Knit cap - 0.25# 0.25
Work Gloves - 1# 1
Work Knife - 1# x2 2
Hatchet - 3# 3
Poncho - 0.5# 0.5
Poncho liner - 0.25# 0.25
550 Cord - 5# 3
First Aid Kit - 3# 3
Pack - 5# 5
2qt - 1.5# x2 3
Digital Camera - 1# 1
PDA - 1# 1
Solar Charger - 1# 1
Total Weight 46lbs

Read all of the previous posts before posting again.

$25,000 in gold in 1700 is roughly 50 pounds of it. And no one outside of the European settlers really have a hard value on it, so it is 50 pounds of dead weight once you cross the Appalachians.

No guns, should be exciting, if brief.

TR

[x-factor]

1) A couple of people have mentioned medical kits, but I think that bears emphasizing. Antibiotics would be critical considering the likelihood of infection spending so much time in the wild and crossing so many ecosystems.

2) I agree that its wise to be cautious about too much reliance on technology, but I would never, ever dream of attempting this without a laptop computer. The utility to weight ratio seems to me to be pretty high.

I'm sure that says as much about my field inexperience as the value of the computer, but nevertheless. If the premise is that you're going to overcome physical hardship with expertise, then why would you not want to have as much knowledge at your fingertips as possible? Furthermore, I want my mind focused on situational awareness and key decisions, not trying to remember minutia like what species of berry is good and what is poisonous.

In addition to carrying the wealth of map and historical/anthropological data already mentioned, you can carry:

- maps/geospatial data (discussed earlier)

- language/cultural guides (discussed earlier)

- medical guides (obviously you don't want to be looking at a computer screen while trying to perform trauma first aid, but for things like toxicology, pharmacology, nutrition, etc. it wouldn't hurt to have a reference manual and not have to rely solely on your memory)

- survival guides (obviously if you don't already know most of this by memory you shouldn't be on the trip, but it still wouldn't hurt to mitigate the risk of mistake by consulting the book every now and then...for example, shelter construction techniques, guide to wild fruit, animal anatomy for field cleaning/cooking, etc)

- ecology guides (like the medical, there's no reason to overburden your mind when you can carry the data with you at no added weight...this is especially true since you're going to be crossing through so many different ecosystems and no one in the world can be expected to master them all from memory)

- games/mental diversions (keeping a diary, playing a little chess, watching a movie, etc would help keep the mind fresh)

- record keeping (if one of the purposes of the trip is collection, as opposed to just personal challenge, then you're going to do a much better job if you've got the tools for the job...plus you're saving weight on paper and other such record keeping supplies)

3) The northern route through Canada is very tempting to me (even though I'm from Florida and hate the cold). By 1700 French fur-trappers had been running those woods as far west as the Dakotas for almost 100 years already, so there are going to be human networks to leverage: trails, rendevous points, established Indian alliances, etc. Plus, it seems to me that modern technology mitigates the cold problem of the northern route a lot better than it mitigates the desert problem of the southern route.

[Kyobanim]

2) I agree that its wise to be cautious about too much reliance on technology, but I would never, ever dream of attempting this without a laptop computer. The utility to weight ratio seems to me to be pretty high.

I've been waiting for that one to come up.

Ok, keep in mind that this is 1700. Now, power it for at least a year, how will you protect it from the environment, what's your backup, how do you repair your charging mechanism. I could go on but that's probably enough to start with.

This pretty much applies to everything you take in the way of technology. It's fun to say "I take this for this reason" but put a little thought into it. If you're taking paper/plastic maps to back up your PDA, why take the PDA? It's wasted weight. Electronics will kill you in that environment.

[x-factor]

Those are valid concerns and I would certainly take paper backups for critical information, like the map data. But, I'm pretty confident that I could find a solar power system to keep the laptop powered for the duration and an environmental pack (even if I have to custom build it) to keep it dry and particle free. That confidence, plus the high upside of the information advantage, puts it in my pack.

Also, its not wasted weight, because you can carry VASTLY more data electronically than on paper...way more than just maps, whole libraries. Besides, its not like paper (even the material used for E&E maps) is indestructible either. If you drop your pack in the river, its going to sink regardless of if its got a laptop or paper maps in it.

Furthermore, TR's original post said that "to keep a record of your travels" is part of the mission. You can do that to an exponentially greater degree of detail and fidelity electronically than you can on paper notes.

I respect the need for hardcopy backups, but the weight-to-utility ratio is just too good for me not to take a computer.

[Sten]

Originally Posted by x-factor

I respect the need for hardcopy backups, but the weight-to-utility ratio is just too good for me not to take a computer.

How are you going to protect your laptop from falls, rain, full freeze thaw cycles, complete submersion in rivers, smacks into trees?

[x-factor]

Originally Posted by Sten

How are you going to protect your laptop from falls, rain, full freeze thaw cycles, complete submersion in rivers, smacks into trees?

falls - ruggedized machine, cushioned place in the pack
freeze-thaw - thermal resistant case, when necessary keep it close to body heat to steady temp
submersion - watertight container
smacks into trees - ruggedized machine, don't use as hammer

[nmap]

Originally Posted by x-factor

Those are valid concerns and I would certainly take paper backups for critical information, like the map data. But, I'm pretty confident that I could find a solar power system to keep the laptop powered for the duration and an environmental pack (even if I have to custom build it) to keep it dry and particle free. That confidence, plus the high upside of the information advantage, puts it in my pack.

X-factor, I've never used any of the hardened equipment you're probably familiar with. Most of the PDAs and laptops I've used have been horrifically fragile, with a tendency to fail just when they're most needed. I can't imagine my desktop machine going for a year without some serious maintenance, even though the worst abuse it faces is a cat on the keyboard. My PDA battery dies permanently if I forget to recharge it - annoying here, but more problematic in the exercise.

So, I'm asking to learn - would the equipment really hold up for a year in such an environment?

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by x-factor

submersion - watertight container
smacks into trees - ruggedized machine, don't use as hammer

I've spent 22 years as a soldier and the last 14 as a surveyor...there is no such thing as ruggedized, waterproof or weather-resistant...at -4 degrees F, LCD screens start acting funny...at 110 degrees F, LCD screens start acting funny...there is no such thing as durable...the more something costs, the more likely it is to fail you when you need it...FWIW, YMMV...

[x-factor]

If its custom built ($), well protected, and you're careful with it. I think there's a better than fair chance it lasts.

If I recall, the rule of thumb for laptops in Afghanistan was six months and the primary killer was dust (not nearly as big a problem in America) and those were off-the-shelf, largely unruggedized, and not very well cared for.

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by x-factor

If its custom built ($), well protected, and you're careful with it. I think there's a better than fair chance it lasts.

I'll bank on my 36 years of experience...