Bugout Loadout

[The Reaper]

I know we have touched on this in other threads, but things may have changed, or someone has a new opinion.

For this scenario, let’s say you have to hit the road (on foot), alone, in ten minutes. You need to be prepared to move at least 100 miles cross country to an alternate safe site / Bug Out Location you have access to. Hopefully, you have your Second Line (carriage) and Third Line (ruck) packed and ready to go, though we could discuss what we have in them as well. Your safe and ammo better be easily accessible. Assume that there will be two-and four-legged predators looking for you along the way. You will be by yourself for this movement, assume that others will meet you at the bug-out location and you will not encounter friendlies en route. Avoiding contact would be the best plan.

The primary issue for discussion here is what weapons you would select to bring with you.

Accessories, optics, slings, holsters, lights, spare mags, ammo, etc., should be listed as well, and their weight added to the total.

Remember that weapons and ammo are heavy. Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain. Good slings and holsters make the load more manageable, but 100 pounds of lightweight gear still weighs 100 pounds. If we assume that your ruck should weigh no more than 45 pounds loaded, with water, and your second line gear (minus armor, weapons and ammo) weighs ten (plus any water carried on it), you probably would not want to add much more than 25 pounds of guns and ammo, in total, if you want to be able to move. Eighty pounds is a lot of weight for someone not accustomed to carrying it, and if you have not practiced with carrying the weight over distances, cross-country, you might want to give it a try before you decide to bring your Barrett M-82 and 1000 rounds.

What you have is what you have, minus water and food you might acquire along the way, no caches or friendlies to resupply from, though en route caches might be a good discussion for another thread.

Rifle: Lightweight Bravo Company M-4 variant, 5.56
Trijicon ACOG TA-31 and LaRue mount
AN/PVS-14
Surefire X300
VCAS sling
Seven loaded 30 round mags
Spare batteries
16 lbs.

Pistol: Glock 19, Gen 4, with night sights, 9x19
One loaded fifteen round mag and two 17 round mags with +2 base pads
Strong side holster (still searching for the perfect one)
Surefire pressure switch for X200
3.5 lbs.

Rimfire pistol: Ruger .22/45, Mk 3, .22 LR
SilencerCo Sparrow SS suppressor
Three ten-round mags of .22 LR Standard Velocity, loaded, and 100 spare rounds
Holster (still searching for the perfect one)
4 lbs.

Could you dispense with one of the weapons, like the long gun, a pistol, or maybe the rifle and a pistol, counting on speed for security? The answer might depend on what you have at your BOL for replacement firearms.

What is your firearms load out for this scenario?

TR

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

100 miles

Avoiding contact would be the best plan.

Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain.

Those are the criteria that stood out the most for me. So 7.62x39 PDW is out
In my thought process E&E with concealment is best. Not going to do any ambushes, shoot though wall/woods, etc.

Integrally suppressed UDP-9 (support local business ) with Holosun Microdot ACSS
Glock 19 9mm with cowitnessed Vortex Venom, AAC Ti Rant
Both platforms share same mags:
4 15 rds mag
2 17 rds mag with extension
2 34 rds mag
Spare 200 rds Gold Dot and 100 rds Remington Subsonic HT
A solid zero/range card (don't laugh) for both from 10 to 200 yards.

Or just a Glock 17 with this
https://gun.deals/product/caa-micro-...ipped-add-cart

[Go Devil]

I agree with Frostfire on E&E being the prominent consideration when shaping this load out.

In my area, moving by day is not a reasonable option and moving at night would dictate movement along field borders and unlit areas. This will drastically extend the time to cover the distance and force me to be as small as possible.

Time of departure is also a factor that influences what I carry.

Daylight:
I'm pulling the HK USP Compact .45 with Trijicon Tritim sights and 4, eight round magazines. OWB holster of my own design. (Complete kit, approximately 7 lbs)

Night:
Daylight load plus 5.56 M4 with Trijicon ACOG, TAG single point sling, and 6, thirty round magazines.
M4 disassembled and placed in inconspicuous backpack with mags. (Approximately 14 lbs) Total, 21lbs

Avoiding contact and being inconspicuous is paramount.
I can't outrun a radio and engaging a superiorly armed force would halt progress and most likely lead to being bracketed.

[Flagg]

Good stuff!

I've had to bug out(earthquake/tsunami false alarms as recently as 6 months ago).

But we have BoBs that get thrown in vehicles leaving in a packet in <10 minutes, usually 5 or so(we've had enough practice!)

On foot would anyone consider the following:

Fewer mags(maybe just 5) but more loose rounds packed away?

A takedown .22lr rifle instead of .22lr pistol?

A different optic, 2-7 maybe?

TI units are getting quite affordable.

[BryanK]

Another great topic. I don't have too many choices, but I'd have to say I'd bring my M4gery(stock) with irons and 6 loaded mags, M9 with 4 magazines riding on a chest rig, my 870 magnum with 50 rounds(5 riding a saddle), and a few extra rounds stored in the ruck. I'm unsure of the combined weight.

It really was a toss-up between bringing my .22 magnum Marlin bolt action VS my 870. The report from the .22 is too loud to use discreetly, so I figured I may as well bring the bear slayer along just in case with an assortment of rounds for both hunting and defense.

[Streck-Fu]

.......you might want to give it a try before you decide to bring your Barrett M-82 and 1000 rounds.

So no Toyota or Jeep based technicals allowed.....

I can't carry 80lbs so my gear would limited to only the essentials but will include a couple nalgene bottles of water and a few cliff bars. It would take a few to 5 days to cover the distance so taking an energy source is necessary as I can't count acquiring food enrout (maybe some squirrels and birds).

Rifle: I would take my AR M4gery and currently mounted Bushnell AR223 scope but limit magazines to no more than 4 or 5 plus batteries for the mounted Surefire 6P. 11-12lbs.

Handgun: Sig P226 with Streamlight TLR-1 HL and 3x18rd magazines in Safariland 6378. Shares batteries with 6P so same spares for both.

I would choose to skip a .22 and don't own any suppressors or NVG. I would carry NVG first is available.

[Oldrotorhead]

I'm old and slow, and the weight I could carry is a bit more limited due to health reasons. if I were to pick from the three weapons listed I would leave the G-19 and possibly add another 100 rounds of .22. The .22 can help feed you in most environments. Pigeons and tree rats at least in urban areas, more options in rural areas. I'd easily trade the G-19 for a life straw and a few protean bars.

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by Oldrotorhead

I'm old and slow, and the weight I could carry is a bit more limited due to health reasons. if I were to pick from the three weapons listed I would leave the G-19 and possibly add another 100 rounds of .22. The .22 can help feed you in most environments. Pigeons and tree rats at least in urban areas, more options in rural areas. I'd easily trade the G-19 for a life straw and a few protean bars.

As I also fall(no pun) into the FOG category..

If I'm walking,, my destination better be a fully stock arms room & cache..

I would hump a Ruger Charger (SBR'd) and Glock 19, w/cans. Three hi-cap mags each, plus box ammo.

Example (not mine, I would use a 4x fixed scope and interchangeable Trijicon RMR type)

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I know we have touched on this in other threads, but things may have changed, or someone has a new opinion.

For this scenario, let’s say you have to hit the road (on foot), alone, in ten minutes. You need to be prepared to move at least 100 miles cross country to an alternate safe site / Bug Out Location you have access to. Hopefully, you have your Second Line (carriage) and Third Line (ruck) packed and ready to go, though we could discuss what we have in them as well. Your safe and ammo better be easily accessible. Assume that there will be two-and four-legged predators looking for you along the way. You will be by yourself for this movement, assume that others will meet you at the bug-out location and you will not encounter friendlies en route. Avoiding contact would be the best plan.

The primary issue for discussion here is what weapons you would select to bring with you.

Accessories, optics, slings, holsters, lights, spare mags, ammo, etc., should be listed as well, and their weight added to the total.

Remember that weapons and ammo are heavy. Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain. Good slings and holsters make the load more manageable, but 100 pounds of lightweight gear still weighs 100 pounds. If we assume that your ruck should weigh no more than 45 pounds loaded, with water, and your second line gear (minus armor, weapons and ammo) weighs ten (plus any water carried on it), you probably would not want to add much more than 25 pounds of guns and ammo, in total, if you want to be able to move. Eighty pounds is a lot of weight for someone not accustomed to carrying it, and if you have not practiced with carrying the weight over distances, cross-country, you might want to give it a try before you decide to bring your Barrett M-82 and 1000 rounds.

What you have is what you have, minus water and food you might acquire along the way, no caches or friendlies to resupply from, though en route caches might be a good discussion for another thread.

Rifle: Lightweight Bravo Company M-4 variant, 5.56
Trijicon ACOG TA-31 and LaRue mount
AN/PVS-14
Surefire X300
VCAS sling
Seven loaded 30 round mags
Spare batteries
16 lbs.

Pistol: Glock 19, Gen 4, with night sights, 9x19
One loaded fifteen round mag and two 17 round mags with +2 base pads
Strong side holster (still searching for the perfect one)
Surefire pressure switch for X200
3.5 lbs.

Rimfire pistol: Ruger .22/45, Mk 3, .22 LR
SilencerCo Sparrow SS suppressor
Three ten-round mags of .22 LR Standard Velocity, loaded, and 100 spare rounds
Holster (still searching for the perfect one)
4 lbs.

Could you dispense with one of the weapons, like the long gun, a pistol, or maybe the rifle and a pistol, counting on speed for security? The answer might depend on what you have at your BOL for replacement firearms.

What is your firearms load out for this scenario?

TR

I think I may be in a unique situation, because I can go 100 miles and still be in a pretty urban environment from where I live. Walking around with a ruck or a long gun would make me stand out like a sore thumb.

So, I'm thinking no ruck, no long gun. I'll carry an H&K USP Compact .40 IWB, wear a baseball cap, and carry a small daypack with some basic toiletries, change of clothes, water, food, three loaded extra mags, a light, and perhaps a few boxes of extra ammo if it fits. Small first aid kit and small emergency survival pack too. What I really need to transit this environment and avoid detection are a few burner phones, several loaded debit cards, and plenty of cash. I can resupply en route, so I don't need to carry a lot of anything.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

I think I may be in a unique situation, because I can go 100 miles and still be in a pretty urban environment from where I live. Walking around with a ruck or a long gun would make me stand out like a sore thumb.

I escaped from being pushed up against the beach. You might be wise to think "water".

Pat

[Penn]

miclo18d

I personally am of the notion of never bring a knife to a gunfight and never bring a pistol to a rifle fight. I would still want an AR variant. I'm still a 5.56 fan. My current is a hand built 16" mid length. Good all around. I would lighten my basic load to probably 4 mags.

Understanding that basic tenet, I'd add the AR and 6/30 rnd mags
1# 4oz per mag = 7.4 0z
7.5 # M4

total 14.9+15.1= 29.10 load

I would not lessen the load as I think the movement is a multi day event to complete.

Taking into consideration a grp has organized an established an RP, would imply several routes have also been considered, but I also add a 1:25 map of the AO.

[The Reaper]

I tend to agree that with 2 and 4 legged threats out there, bring the rifle and hope you do not have to use it.

If you got to the RP and it had been overrun, having nothing but a .22LR pistol might limit your options considerably.

RL, you have a rather unique set of circumstances. Maybe the long-term plan is to eventually move out of that area. In the meanwhile, I would suggest that if you can get an SBR, the new AR Personal Defense Weapons in 5.56 with the M-3 type collapsible stock and a very short barrel is very handy and concealable. Might even fit in a briefcase. Unfortunately, a suppressor is not available at your current location, and I would definitely want one for this journey. Definitely, you need a brick of .22 CB Longs and a pump or lever action to run them through. Next time you are near Bragg, you will have to come over for a range day and check a few cans out. Sadly, I would feel that the odds would be very long indeed if things went to crap, ala Rodney King trial, and there were rioters in the street and roadblocks every few intersections and you had to move through it. To top it all off, you live in an area with very limited surface water to replenish with. Were I you, I would have the best intel net I could find, and would pack for an extended camping trip well before they got to your neighborhood. There are so many man-made and natural disaster possibilities in your area requiring evacuation that I would probably keep a bunch of storage boxes stacked near the garage door with my necessities to be ready to go on very short notice. BTW, burners are easy, call me if you need details.

Agreed on the Mk 262, SOST Mk 316, or TAP 5.56 ammo several have recommended.

IMHO, takedowns are generally to slow to deploy and add too much weight for the purpose of this scenario.

I think that outside of shelter and water purification (I do not like the straws, they are prone to clog very quickly in dirty water and do not permit you to upload clean water to your storage devices. The Sawyer is a much better option, light, and its extremely inexpensive, IMHO. The Katadyns are the heat, but tend to be heavy and bulky. The primary load is going to be food.

A very fit long distance rucker with a minimalist load, good flat routes, running trails (and avoiding large water obstacles and severe elevation changes) while maintaining some security could cross 100 miles in 3-4 days. The out of shape guy with too much weight and a bad route could take a couple of weeks and still maybe never get there. I think a reasonable compromise for an average fit male to move 100 miles on varied terrain and no major water obstacles would be a week to ten days and the food load should support that.

Jerky and a couple of protein bars isn't going to get you there. In this situation, hunting is jeopardizing your security, and the time it takes to trap or snare is probably not worth the food you might gather. Fishing might be an option, if you knew where and what to fish with, and had a secluded site. I would guess that you might want to stock 20-30 freeze dried and high energy meals and additional snacks for the trip, averaging 3,000 calories per day or more. This would probably necessitate a stove and fuel as well, due to the requirement for boiling water and the security issue of making a campfire.

Will add to this later.

TR

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

RL, you have a rather unique set of circumstances. Maybe the long-term plan is to eventually move out of that area. In the meanwhile, I would suggest that if you can get an SBR, the new AR Personal Defense Weapons in 5.56 with the M-3 type collapsible stock and a very short barrel is very handy and concealable. Might even fit in a briefcase. Unfortunately, a suppressor is not available at your current location, and I would definitely want one for this journey. Definitely, you need a brick of .22 CB Longs and a pump or lever action to run them through. Next time you are near Bragg, you will have to come over for a range day and check a few cans out. Sadly, I would feel that the odds would be very long indeed if things went to crap, ala Rodney King trial, and there were rioters in the street and roadblocks every few intersections and you had to move through it. To top it all off, you live in an area with very limited surface water to replenish with. Were I you, I would have the best intel net I could find, and would pack for an extended camping trip well before they got to your neighborhood. There are so many man-made and natural disaster possibilities in your area requiring evacuation that I would probably keep a bunch of storage boxes stacked near the garage door with my necessities to be ready to go on very short notice. BTW, burners are easy, call me if you need details.

I did not read this scenario as indicating the reason for bugging out was civil unrest. More that someone was coming for me. In the civil unrest scenario, I have a completely different plan, with Plan A being to shelter in place and Plan B involving a boat.

You know I can't come to Bragg without seeing you, and range time would be awesome.

[miclo18d]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

RL, you have a rather unique set of circumstances.

Taking a hint from Fear the Walking Dead. RL may want to consider The water as his bug out plan. This requires a completely different set of skills and would probably require stealing any boat that has the right capabilities, but this would negate having to negotiate the urban nightmare as well as reducing probable contact significantly.

Even a small Kayak or a Hobie sailboat for around $2000 could get the job done and get you away from the city to get you to less urban environments.

Katadyn filters are probably the gold standard, but for MUCH less money and weight, the former Sweetwater Guardian (now owned by MSR) is a very good product!