Calexit!

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Flagg

The joys of NZ.

Cheers!

All's well that ends well. "...plan" What a revolutionary concept.

[atticus finch]

Originally Posted by akv

Well its a good thing to know America could do without by far the largest part of its GDP, massive food production, and what would be the worlds 6th largest economy standalone...

My $,02 Crazy Politics are one thing, but careful what you wish for,this country needs to heal.

We'd do rather well without what they grow out there. Farming here in the south would take off like a rocket with the market demand. It would put a lot of people back to work and a lot of idle areas would be economically boosted.

6th largest economy? That is true, what's the loss to the rest of us economically that the rest of the country wouldnt benefit from by making up for it?

Not to mention the current costs to the country that 6th largest economy comes with politically, culturally, etc. As it stand, the price isn't worth it.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by akv

6th largest economy

Don't think so, when we left 5 years ago it had slipped to 8th. Without federal funds (for military bases, airports, sea ports, highways, etc.) it won't even be able to compete with Mexico. Yes, it has resources but will not exploit them. Don't cut the trees, don't drill for oil, no nuclear power, tear down the dams, protect the Delta Smelt at the cost of the Central Valley crops. It would quickly make Venezuela look good because Americans can't stand hardship. Plus, Trump would put heavy tariffs on imports from there. Can't happen anyway but that's the reality if it could.

Don't know how to read your pink font, though. You might be saying the same thing through sarcasm.

Pat

[Flagg]

Originally Posted by atticus finch

We'd do rather well without what they grow out there. Farming here in the south would take off like a rocket with the market demand. It would put a lot of people back to work and a lot of idle areas would be economically boosted.

6th largest economy? That is true, what's the loss to the rest of us economically that the rest of the country wouldnt benefit from by making up for it?

Not to mention the current costs to the country that 6th largest economy comes with politically, culturally, etc. As it stand, the price isn't worth it.

Something to consider perhaps:

The cost per solar generated kilowatt/hour has collapsed from approx $77 dollars 40 years ago to the current limbo low example of $0.026c today(large scale project, not home installation).

That's unbelievably cheap. And good news in a part of the battle to kick the habit of energy addiction that enriches our enemies.

Commodity food has potential to be completely transformed by further automation and exponential potential via robotics/automation(productivity improving, but ag job killing), LED lights(indoor farming productivity per sq foot and energy requirements are looking very competitive), and lab grown genetically indistinguishable meat is a near reality(digital biology is very real).

% of workforce engaged in ag is extremely low, and will go even lower with automation/robotics, and digital biology.

It might be worth thinking about the future in terms of technological complexity & innovation balance of trade.

Do you import more technological complexity and innovation than you export?

If so, your community/state/region/country might be in trouble down the road.

The Stone Age ended before we ran out of stones.

The Bronze Age ended before we ran out of bronze.

And the Oil Age will end before we run out of oil.

Based on the very, very fast rising competitiveness of solar/wind power generation the end of the Oil Age may be within sight(although storage is still a problem in need of improved solutions).

We are also in a period where we are shifting to fewer people producing more of the GDP.

California is a huge exporter of commodity food as well as technological complexity & innovation......and a bit of a hub for left wing crazy.

Unfortunately, it seems like you can't get the tech/innovation exports without the crazy as a by product.

Exporting commoditised products and importing tech/innovation is a losing proposition for long term value creation in the shift from scarcity to tech/innovation fuelled abundance.

Afghan melons are pretty tasty, but I wouldn't want to emulate their sustenance level full employment model. Or anything else for that matter.

Sorry, I'm being injected with a bunch of Singularity University hippy propaganda as we speak.

But it is pretty science-y based!

In my opinion(which is both free and unsolicited so be careful!), If President Elect Trump does nothing more than simplify US tax code; throws a few politicians, lobbyists, and their employers in jail for sedition; and most importantly gets government out of the way of "the little guy" entrepreneurs.....then the American Dream will be reborn for a lot more folks.

Innovation made America great.....not soy beans, corn, and wheat.

[Flagg]

Originally Posted by PSM

Don't think so, when we left 5 years ago it had slipped to 8th. Without federal funds (for military bases, airports, sea ports, highways, etc.) it won't even be able to compete with Mexico. Yes, it has resources but will not exploit them. Don't cut the trees, don't drill for oil, no nuclear power, tear down the dams, protect the Delta Smelt at the cost of the Central Valley crops. It would quickly make Venezuela look good because Americans can't stand hardship. Plus, Trump would put heavy tariffs on imports from there. Can't happen anyway but that's the reality if it could.

Don't know how to read your pink font, though. You might be saying the same thing through sarcasm.

Pat

Do you really reckon?

California based tech companies generate a gigaton of foreign cash from tech exports.

Unfortunately, that cash /profit generated only from foreign sales is stashed in staggering quantities in overseas banks in hopes of another tax amnesty.

California tech punches WAY above its weight in terms of balance of trade for the US.

And it seems quite resilient based on its ability to not only survive but thrive with each tech crash.

A crazy combo of raw talent, education, R&D, and capital coming in from all over the world to fuel it(Silicon Valley specifically).

My biggest California specific concern as President would be to help accelerate it(which is usually just getting out of the way or targeting R&D$$$), but I'd also be looking at bringing the tech "masters of the universe" to heel, politically speaking.

The political power emanating from the tech industry goes far beyond the cash/profits and the well above average pay jobs they generate.

It's also the political influence shaping potential buried in mass marketplaces/ecosystems. That's some near future Rollerball 1975 stuff right there.

[ddoering]

How many of those companies would choose to emigrate to America if CA left the union? They are not tax friendly. And there economy is inflated by their BS housing market that values a shed at a million bucks. CA would quickly become a third world country or just another state of Mexico.

[bblhead672]

Originally Posted by akv

Well its a good thing to know America could do without by far the largest part of its GDP, massive food production, and what would be the worlds 6th largest economy standalone...

My $,02 Crazy Politics are one thing, but careful what you wish for,this country needs to heal.

Funny when the talk was about Texas seceding people were saying that Texas (11th largest economy standalone) couldn't survive without the rest of the country.

I believe the most productive people and companies would flock out of Kalifornia if the state wanted out of the United States. It's already happening on a smaller scale, as evidenced by the number of companies and it's employees relocating to Texas.

[bubba]

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your POV), kalifornia could survive without the rest of us due to its one saving geographical feature, ports. A warm water port protected by break-water is one of the most important features a nation needs to survive. If California goes, it will surely take its communist cousins Oregon and Washington with it resulting in a serious lack of west-coast trade. That's why the moon-bats in Chicago would never try to secede, the rest of Illinois (as well as most States) would shrug it off and let them go.

OACOK......

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by bubba

A warm water port protected by break-water is one of the most important features a nation needs to survive.

Seize the existing military space staked out as part of the divorce. Rest of the infrastructure (rail, Ike's road system) could remain mutually beneficial. Naval Commerce Bases (NCB's) Padre, Dodger, Giant & Mariner. Look how long we kept Gitmo.

[sfshooter]

Originally Posted by Flagg

Innovation made America great.....not soy beans, corn, and wheat.

Innovation is great to an extent but....soy beans, corn, and wheat have kept America alive and fed the world for a lot of years.

I don't have any stats or proof but I think we have probably exported more food than we have technology.

[35NCO]

Imo, Not really so wonderful. What happens when they go full communist or whatever mantra they have, and actrually start allowing Chinese or Russian forces to set up shop for security and economic boosts? Sounds like a recipe for another missile crisis. The huge port area will not help the problem any. Our oversights would also likely lead to a ground war against our former friends and family. I see no way of it going well. It would be a authoritarian leftest country that chose to leave based on a disagreement with American princples. Even if simple, then what? They need diplomacy, economics, militaries, intelligence, currency...ext. Nothing that assumes their track in ten to twenty years would still be friendly.

Flagg, your post reminds me that it is always interesting to me that even if people are brilliant they can still have irrational political views. Not saying you do, but speaking of any political view that differs our own. They are not really dumb people, even if all of it denies any fact to which we know. They are just true believers of a belief system. It does not matter if it makes sense or not. Astonishing, when a scientist or academic can have a career of only facts, to blindly scream that we need this fictional utopian society with a foundation of historically failed princples of mass murderers and war criminals.

Looking at these videos of those thousands dressed in black and rags, covering their heads and faces, while burning american flags, hanging effigys of our future president, and beating those whom do not follow, is NO different than looking at the Taliban taking AFG, and so many terrible others before them. Just following thier belief...it always starts slow and steady.

Or maybe I am the one who is wrong, blindly following the allegiance to the patriotic human principles of my nation.

I have even given a good portion of my life to serving it selflessly...what a deplorable true believer I have become.

[PSM]

We're just playing "what if" games here. There is no mechanism for succession and, even if there were, they wouldn't do it. They continue to disarm themselves and their only defense is increasingly Federally funded.

The takeaway here is that they are now discussing secession and are on the defensive, not the "red" states. There are now only 4 or 5 states where the Democrats rule all three branches. They are dying on the vine and they know it.

It's time make sure that the refugees from these states are not able to poison the Heartland as they flee the rubble that they've created.

Heartland states need to enact laws that restrict "refugee" citizen's right to vote in local and state elections for some period of time. I'd recommend 10 years. They can't be stopped from voting in a Federal election for President but they can be stopped from voting for Congressman during the probation years. I've only been in AZ for 5 years and I still do not have an honest feeling of who deserves my vote and I pay pretty close attention to what's going on.

Liberalism/Socialism/Progressivism/Communism is a disease and needs to be quarantined and eraticated.

Pat

[CAARNG 68W]

Originally Posted by Badger52

Seize the existing military space staked out as part of the divorce. Rest of the infrastructure (rail, Ike's road system) could remain mutually beneficial. Naval Commerce Bases (NCB's) Padre, Dodger, Giant & Mariner. Look how long we kept Gitmo.

Huh?

[Flagg]

Originally Posted by sfshooter

Innovation is great to an extent but....soy beans, corn, and wheat have kept America alive and fed the world for a lot of years.

I don't have any stats or proof but I think we have probably exported more food than we have technology.

Here's a few numbers and links that might help us:

Ag exports as proportion of total exports(chart of last 20 years, ag trending down proportionally, but with a recent bump up):

http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/inter...t-two-decades/

OCONUS cash held by US tech companies(tech $777 billion out of $1.68 trillion of cash held by non bank companies):

http://www.siliconbeat.com/2016/05/2...moodys-report/

Over half a trillion OCONUS cash held by just 5 companies: Apple($216 billion) Microsoft, Google, Cisco, and Oracle.

All Silicon Valley HQ'd except Microsoft but with a big presence there.

Those numbers make El Chapo Guzman and his giant piles of drug cash look like a dirty hobo in comparison.

I can't imagine the pressure that must be getting exerted by powerful company management, influential shareholders, potential for direct political influence(Google manipulating search ranking & presentation and Facebook shaping friend influence), and the usual indirect political lobbying and campaign funding.

That's getting into quasi corporate nation state levels of influence/power.

A half a trillion in cash has a negotiated return home....

At what tax rate?

How much has to be invested in future campaign finance to get that tax rate?

How will the cash be deployed/invested upon its return?

I wonder what pressure the next President can put on their overseas bank accounts?

And this is the part where eyes glaze over discussing things like the "double Irish" and "Dutch sandwich" quasi legal tax minimisation schemes that led to drug lord X100 piles of undeployed cash.

Imagine if the next President said something like:

"You have 12 months to bring that cash home at 0% tax rate and another 12 months to deploy/invest it within the US in designated infrastructure projects or the tax rate increases to 100% when the calendar hits 24 months from today."

Very crude, over simplistic, and would see huge distortions, but there'd be a jillion jobs available, Star Trek transporters, and petabit speed for all.....assuming Congress wasn't rented to oppose it.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by CAARNG 68W

Huh?

Tongue-in-cheek "what-if's" here.
Maybe you'd prefer memorials to football teams.