12-13-2007, 14:57
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#16
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Asset
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FT. Bragg
Posts: 9
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Multi-Cams
Quote:
Originally Posted by S3Project
kgoerz,
If I recall correctly, the photo comes from a Future Force Warrior exercise circa early 2007. But I may be incorrect.
Regards,
Derek
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As kgoerz mentioned these uniforms are being tested in conjunction with the Future Force Warrior Exercise. The Future Force program basically tests the new high tech equipment that the military wishes to one day effectively utilize in a combat environment. Basically think of Ghost Recon the Video game and image those types of systems being implemented into reality. As to their effectiveness in a rigorous combat environment.........well that's a whole different issue!!
As for the Muti-cams themselves they resemble the types of patterns found in Northern European countries such as Norway and Sweden, with the exception of having different color schemes. As for the effectiveness of the camouflage Multi-Cam pattern itself, I can personally verify that it is much more effective in a woodland environment than anything that is currently being used.
It's ironic, but the method that CSB (minus all the shooting) posted is basically the method we used to determine which type of uniform would blend in the best. We set up virtually every type of uniform in use by the US Gov; ACU's, brown dyed ACU's, BDU, DCU's, Marine DCU's (both types), Old school OD Green's, and some foreign uniforms, in a woodland environment. We then were about 300 meters away with spotting scopes and tried to identify the different types of camo patterns. From my personal experience the Multi-Cams blended in the best followed by the Marine Pixilated woodland pattern. All in all, much better than ACU's, BDU's. ...etc.
The uniforms themselves also have incorporated under amour, whereby you have a poly blend fabric for the torso portion, with only actual Muti-Cam material for sleeves. This is so that you can throw on you kit/body amour over your uniform and in theory not overheat as much as you would with a regular BDU/ACU uniform.
Supposedly (rumors of course) the army is going to switch from the current ACU pattern to the multi-cams with-in 5 years. Not really sure how likely that is due to the nature of large government contracts, but only time will tell.
I hope this was a little informative and if you have any questions regarding this issue please feel free to send me a message and I'll tell what I can.
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Eri7ch80 is offline
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12-13-2007, 16:40
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#17
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NC for now
Posts: 2,418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eri7ch80
As kgoerz mentioned these uniforms are being tested in conjunction with the Future Force Warrior Exercise. The Future Force program basically tests the new high tech equipment that the military wishes to one day effectively utilize in a combat environment. Basically think of Ghost Recon the Video game and image those types of systems being implemented into reality. As to their effectiveness in a rigorous combat environment.........well that's a whole different issue!!
As for the Muti-cams themselves they resemble the types of patterns found in Northern European countries such as Norway and Sweden, with the exception of having different color schemes. As for the effectiveness of the camouflage Multi-Cam pattern itself, I can personally verify that it is much more effective in a woodland environment than anything that is currently being used.
It's ironic, but the method that CSB (minus all the shooting) posted is basically the method we used to determine which type of uniform would blend in the best. We set up virtually every type of uniform in use by the US Gov; ACU's, brown dyed ACU's, BDU, DCU's, Marine DCU's (both types), Old school OD Green's, and some foreign uniforms, in a woodland environment. We then were about 300 meters away with spotting scopes and tried to identify the different types of camo patterns. From my personal experience the Multi-Cams blended in the best followed by the Marine Pixilated woodland pattern. All in all, much better than ACU's, BDU's. ...etc.
The uniforms themselves also have incorporated under amour, whereby you have a poly blend fabric for the torso portion, with only actual Muti-Cam material for sleeves. This is so that you can throw on you kit/body amour over your uniform and in theory not overheat as much as you would with a regular BDU/ACU uniform.
Supposedly (rumors of course) the army is going to switch from the current ACU pattern to the multi-cams with-in 5 years. Not really sure how likely that is due to the nature of large government contracts, but only time will tell.
I hope this was a little informative and if you have any questions regarding this issue please feel free to send me a message and I'll tell what I can.
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The Web Sight Milspec Monkey or something close to that has the testing data also. Was pretty interesting reading. Multi Cam didn't have a name when the testing was conducted and they are refereed to as Contractor in the write up. Interesting photos there also.
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kgoerz is offline
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12-13-2007, 17:49
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#18
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fort Bragg, NC
Posts: 183
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As stated above, when the Dept. of Army went looking for a new uniform pattern, MC was never considered. It was part of the Future Force project and that is where it remains. What I have not read is whether Crye decided not to enter the process for consideration, similiar to HK's decission not to enter for the new SOCOM rifle, or if Crye was left out on the Army side. Either way, it has got to be one of the worst decissions made by the higher ups. What makes it even worst is that they continue throw away good money after bad. As far as it's effectiveness, I will neither confirm nor deny that I have seen it's effects in an environment similar to that of A-stan and it beats all others hands down, especially the ACU pattern.
As far as multiple services having different uniforms, there is some regulation/policy letter that states each service hold proprietary rights over their uniforms and another service must obtain written consent to use said uniform design. When the BDU was selected by Dept. of the Army way back when, each service was granted rights to use the design. With that, we can blame the USMC for our current state of field uniforms as they were the first to break ranks and go another route. :P
The grape vine has a rumor that there is a push within USASOC to convert to MC in the near future. Only time will tell if the powers that be will sign off on it.
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Para is offline
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12-13-2007, 20:12
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#19
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eri7ch80
As for the Muti-cams themselves they resemble the types of patterns found in Northern European countries such as Norway and Sweden, with the exception of having different color schemes.
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Thanks for the info, but I was wondering if you had any links or pictures of the Scanadanavian camo schemes you're referencing. I served alongside Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish and Danish troops in the mid-90s, and back then they all sported a variation of either the large-block or 'flecktarn' camo schemes seen here:
http://www.geocities.com/canuck_infa...wedish_M90.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/canuck_infa...anish_M-84.jpg
A Google search on swedish and norwegian camouflage didn't pull up any differing results. Have our viking cousins switched to a new camouflage pattern recently?
Quote:
It's ironic, but the method that CSB (minus all the shooting) posted is basically the method we used to determine which type of uniform would blend in the best. We set up virtually every type of uniform in use by the US Gov; ACU's, brown dyed ACU's, BDU, DCU's, Marine DCU's (both types), Old school OD Green's, and some foreign uniforms, in a woodland environment. We then were about 300 meters away with spotting scopes and tried to identify the different types of camo patterns.
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Was this a unit internal test, or were you part of a larger Army/Natick testing program at the time?
Quote:
The uniforms themselves also have incorporated under amour, whereby you have a poly blend fabric for the torso portion, with only actual Muti-Cam material for sleeves. This is so that you can throw on you kit/body amour over your uniform and in theory not overheat as much as you would with a regular BDU/ACU uniform.
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On this note, did you see where the Army has taken this particular design and made it part of the ACU for wear under body armor? I think its very interesting how they kept the characteristics of a wicking, stretch material, but were able to make it flash-proof. This could have potential for further uniform improvements.
Quote:
Supposedly (rumors of course) the army is going to switch from the current ACU pattern to the multi-cams with-in 5 years.
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Was there any validity to the source of this rumor, or just wishful thinking by Joe?
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Razor is offline
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12-13-2007, 20:42
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#20
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Tuukka
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
Thanks for the info, but I was wondering if you had any links or pictures of the Scanadanavian camo schemes you're referencing.
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I sent Tuukka a PM and told him to wake up and join in. Little dark up there right now, he might be hibernating. Being a Finn he should have some good input on the Arctic Circle Gang.
Pete
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Pete is offline
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12-14-2007, 01:08
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#21
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,096
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Is Crye Precision the same as multi cam? 5th Group CIF is using the Crye Precision uniform only on missions. Sucks for them, since they have ACU, DCU, and the Crye uniform.
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18C4V is offline
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12-14-2007, 01:40
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#22
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Asset
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: York, PA
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18C4V
Is Crye Precision the same as multi cam? 5th Group CIF is using the Crye Precision uniform only on missions. Sucks for them, since they have ACU, DCU, and the Crye uniform.
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I believe that Crye Precision is the licensed owner of the MultiCam pattern, but they have various agreements with other companies who have begun producing their own products in MultiCam (Tru-Spec for example). Thus, Crye has its MultiCam uniforms, but there are others floating around out there too.
Last edited by Geez1234; 12-14-2007 at 01:44.
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Geez1234 is offline
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12-14-2007, 05:40
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#24
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Tuukka
Tuukka;
Good pictures.
Finland, Sweden and Norway seem to be based on the same large splotch greens and tans paterns.
Contractors up there scratching each other's back?
Pete
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Pete is offline
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12-14-2007, 06:19
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#25
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Tuukka;
Good pictures.
Finland, Sweden and Norway seem to be based on the same large splotch greens and tans paterns.
Contractors up there scratching each other's back?
Pete
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Dont know about that...
But if one takes a look at the terrain and vegetation, we are all pretty similar.
Sadly I could not find a picture of the Swedes wearing their issued hair nets
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Tuukka is offline
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12-14-2007, 09:45
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#26
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,510
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To be honest, I'm a fan of larger block camo. After 100m or so, everything else tends to blur into a single color, which is effective for matching a background, but does little for breaking up an outline.
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Razor is offline
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01-11-2008, 13:05
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#27
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Asset
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 0
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I heard MC wasnt considered because it isn't digital. Since digital stuff is all the hype these days it was doomed. I've seen GROM wearing MC or something like it. ACUs aren't good for anything hardly. They tear easily and don't blend in. I hope what some of the guys have heard is true and we go to something else.
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Txwrh is offline
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01-11-2008, 13:43
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#28
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kitsap WA
Posts: 213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuukka
Pete, thanks for the heads up
Ok, here are the current camo patterns in use over here;
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Most of those remind me of the camo used by the WWII Wehrmacht.
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Pete S is offline
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01-11-2008, 15:29
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#29
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ludington, MI
Posts: 62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Nobody I know likes the ACU camo pattern, or thinks that it is very effective.
Few people I have spoken with like the material, or the design of the uniform either.
As mentioned before, it appears to be a uniform designed by and for an office pogue. Probably blends in well with the grey steel desks and filing cabinets, or the UNICOR cubicle colors.
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Sorry to beat a dead horse sir but I couldn't agree more. Being a short guy, I had every one of my issued ACU crotches ripped out within days of issue due to them being so low cut. I like the security of velcro pockets but their so fucking loud to open I thank the lord nothing we did in Iraq or Afghanistan was a noise-discipline enviroment.
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JCasp is offline
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01-11-2008, 21:01
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#30
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Personally, I thought that having everyone from all services in the same camo pattern and uniform made target ID much easier, and reduced the chances for fratricide, but what do I know?
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Made sense to me. And I also liked it because I could go to any clothing sales on any base/post the US Military has and pick up BDUs, if needed.
The AF ABU isn't much better than the ACU. I think we have a bit of blue in ours, but it's difficult to tell the colors apart. We do have that cool tiger stripe pattern, tho.
I also heard about some PJs in Hurlburt wearing the MC uniforms. No idea where they got those.
Did anyone notice in the movie, "Transformers" that the ODA was wearing MC? My nephew picked that out and asked me what sort of uniforms they were wearing.
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