18D Medical Training Skill set

[Razor]

Maybe I don't fully understand the implications of what you guys are discussing, but why are you concerned about being qualified in the civilian world if you're working towards practicing primarily under the umbrella of Uncle Sugar in the immediate future?

[NousDefionsDoc]

Originally posted by Razor
Maybe I don't fully understand the implications of what you guys are discussing, but why are you concerned about being qualified in the civilian world if you're working towards practicing primarily under the umbrella of Uncle Sugar in the immediate future?

Damn fine query.

[Sponge]

Razor sir, you're absolutely right. Every reply I tried to think of came out sounding petty and selfish and most of them involved the word "fair." We're given an amazing amount of independence in our medical techniques, much more so than a paramedic in the civilian world. Would I rather be a paramedic or an 18D? No comparison. But regardless, here's the scoop from SOMTB. Just went in and found the civilian POC for SOCM who is working with the NR. As of the latest class who just finished SOCM, they did not take the NREMT-P. However, things are definitely in the works to change this back to the way things were a few years ago. Right now they're waiting on authorization to have the students challenge the test on their own, then the next step will be to move the testing back to the schoolhouse. So that's the word, but following what Razor said, we really have nothing to complain about.

[ccrn]

Originally posted by Sponge
...petty and selfish and most of them involved the word "fair."

I dont feel selfish or petty and fairness has nothing to do with it. My scope of practice is already wider than EMT-P in the civilain world so that is not my concern.

Assuming I am accepted into a unit then selected and pass all phases I will be Guard (age). I understand that opstempo is high but at the same time I had hoped to also practice as EMT-P some on the outside to keep up certain skills such as intubation etc.

That would be for the benifit of pts in the field be they U.S or other. Not for monetary reasons

FWIT I understand that quite a few 18D go RN after service but I personaly think it a shame that soldiers with such high skill sets are not legaly allowed to challenge EMT-P. It might help to transition to civilian life later on-

Respectully

ccrn

[Sponge]

Sorry ccrn, I didn't factor in the guard guys who would be in a situation to actually utilize the EMT-P quals in a matter of a few months. I was only speaking for myself in that I couldn't think of any worthwhile reason why it would be necessary for me to be NREMT-P qualed at this time. If I want to get in some ER time all I have to do now is talk to some people at Womack. Things sound like they are changing every other month, who knows, you might be in luck. Send me a PM if you need the POC over at SOMTB.

[ccrn]

Originally posted by Sponge
Send me a PM if you need the POC over at SOMTB.

Thanks thats tempting and maybe I will get that from you in the future.

For you AD guys it would be nice to rotate through an OR for a few days and do all intubations while conus, perhaps once a year for refresher.

For that matter RC too. Staying proficient with ACLS including fluid rescusitation would be a concern too I would think especialy for RC guys unless they are TDY in the box a lot. But I dont know that from experience-

Thanks

ccrn

[SouthernDZ]

Originally Posted by Razor

Maybe I don't fully understand the implications of what you guys are discussing, but why are you concerned about being qualified in the civilian world if you're working towards practicing primarily under the umbrella of Uncle Sugar in the immediate future?

While the MOS phase of the Special Forces Medical Sergeant (18D30) course remains 46 weeks, much has changed. The Special Operations Combat Medic (W-1) still occupies the same classroom space for the first 24 weeks of what is almost exclusively trauma medicine. The NREMT-P certification began for the 18D30 at the same time the SOCM course was instituted. Prior to this certification we had 18Ds who were qualified to do a great deal but were certified to do nothing. The follow-on civilian Paramedic career was not the emphasis for this certification (though it was a benefit); certification was instituted for sustainment reasons. Most hospitals (even military) required some form of certification to delineate what duties the 18D could perform during hospital sustainment rotations. Prior to this, the 18D was limited by the same scope of practice the 91W was. The AMEDD saw this need as well and began certification of their 91W (68W) as an EMT-Basics two years earlier.

The National Registry EMT-P certification did go away, has been gone for the past 4 years. This was done for a couple of reasons, some political. A major reason it went away is the NREMT-P curriculum standard is based on the Department of Transportation (DOT) minimal guidelines. These guidelines have so many hours of cardiac, OB/GYN, diabetic emergencies, etc. Unfortunately, the 18D course is already 25lbs of s*** in a 5lb bag. With the GWOT, cardiac defibrillation was not a priority for the SOF/SF medic. It just doesn't occur on the battlefield; trauma-induced cardiac arrests are DRT (dead right there). DOT didn't like the deemphasis of these and other subjects as listed above, in favor of more TCCC training.

The current SOF/SF medics are covered under the Advanced Training Protocols (ATP). At present there is no reciprocity with the NREMT-P, but the USSOCOM Surgeon's office is working on it. Having said that, NREMT-P may come back (new personalities involved); we'll keep you posted.

I recently went down to the JSOMTC for a meeting; fellas, it's relevant, serious business drawing on OIF/OEF lessons learned and is better than ever.

[Victor6]

If I am BLS and ACLS certified with 1 year of ER (Combat Support Hospital) experience, then would I be able to become a paramedic with the training I receive from the 18D course as well?

Why not become certified in the civilian sector as well.. with the training you receive in the Army?

I understand that SF training all mission-oriented, but even so, wouldn't it benefit our soldiers more if they received academic credit equivalents in the civilian sector as well? There's nothing wrong with preparing for one's future in the civilian sector right?

[The Reaper]

Victor, let me guess....

You didn't read the stickies or rules, right?

You might want to before posting again.

You should also learn to use the Search button.

TR

[MARSOC0211]

Originally Posted by Victor6

If I am BLS and ACLS certified with 1 year of ER (Combat Support Hospital) experience, then would I be able to become a paramedic with the training I receive from the 18D course as well?

Why not become certified in the civilian sector as well.. with the training you receive in the Army?

I understand that SF training all mission-oriented, but even so, wouldn't it benefit our soldiers more if they received academic credit equivalents in the civilian sector as well? There's nothing wrong with preparing for one's future in the civilian sector right?

I don't want to step on anyone's crank here, but besides the stickies... My question is, who cares what external accredidation you receive... Your only thought process should be on the "here and now".... How am I going to become an 18x (I didn't say Delta 'cause you got to get selected first for something)...then if you do make it, how can I BEST support the team... guess what, as a Doc you have enough to worry about to ensure YOU can save a teammate's life...going out on a limb here, but that is paramount and much more valuable and gratifying than a transcript...

going back to my hole

[FMF DOC]

Originally Posted by IMUA

Joe...
Its been quite awhile since I've looked back at that syllabus...mighty impressive. Its interesting tho... that in most civilian settings, these guys can't get jobs as ER Techs...go figure!
I have 19 18D trained types (CAG, SF, SEAL)with me here in Iraq...doesn't get any better than that!
Best regards, Bro......

RB

So very true, it's a shame that after all that training you can't challenge a state board for EMT-P or LPN/RN. Many moons ago ago you could challenge for LPN in Maryland & Cali but I don't think you can now. I'm a lowly ER Tech for the VA now and do alot of instructing in the private sector.

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by FMF DOC

So very true, it's a shame that after all that training you can't challenge a state board for EMT-P or LPN/RN...

Thats not true.

ATP card holders get direct reciprocity in Georgia at the paramedic level. SOCM/18D grads can again challenge the NREMT-P test and can also sit for the California RN exam...

Crip

[FMF DOC]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

Thats not true.

ATP card holders get direct reciprocity in Georgia at the paramedic level. SOCM/18D grads can again challenge the NREMT-P test and can also sit for the California RN exam...

Crip

Thanks for the info Surgicalcric was not aware of that...

[whocares175]

just thought id put this out also:
jsomtc is currently in the works of getting the 18d accredited and making it a degree producing course. as of now many colleges provide 20-30 credits simply for the 18d as is and with the other experiences of the training pipeline it can account for more credits. what college and how soon this will actually is a different story. the acreditation society came through last september and last i checked the command is still working on it. also, there is another program to help retiring 18d's become pa's. they take your experience, turn it into college credit, you attend a few classes at college (not sure which one but it's around the raleigh/durham area) and they will certify you as a pa with one catch, you have to work in the rural areas of nc for i believe it's 5 years.
when i find out more, i'll post it.
as previously mentioned, socm still counts as schooling to challenge national registry at the paramedic level although you have to do the testing on your own. the school house is currently working on making the hands on portion available on a volunteer basis but so far we haven't had enough people will or someone available to proctor.

[Dragbag036]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

Thats not true.

ATP card holders get direct reciprocity in Georgia at the paramedic level. SOCM/18D grads can again challenge the NREMT-P test and can also sit for the California RN exam...

Crip

How can I find out more about the California RN?