AK Pistols and the "BRACE"

[JJ_BPK]

Anyone want to comment on the viability of the arm brace on an AK pistols?

I have a AK pistol based on a AMD-65 (12.5 inch barrel) kit in a registered "pistol" frame. It is a hand full but packs small.

I am also thinking about dumping the 7.62x39's and picking up a Zastava PAP M85 Pistol in 5.56?? They have an AR mag well..

http://centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=HG3237-N

[Toaster]

Frostfire has one and speaks very highly of it. He calls it the Poor Man's Personal Defense Weapon, PMPDW.

I think the 7.62x39 is more viable than the 5.56x45 in the platform. My basis is the AK was designed on it, and the AK round is harder hitting from the short barrel considering all the velocity lost in the 5.56.

[missrosalita37]

I own a Sig 716 .308 pistol, 12.5" barrel and the brace makes this one an SBR without the Class 3 requirements and Government identification. OK, so I circumvented the Class 3 BS, but better to be armed without Government interference and give up only the "hard" shoulder stock for this "Brace" replacement! Other than that, there is no difference!

Jim

[JJ_BPK]

Jim

If I'm not mistaken, you were asked to 1)fill out your profile and 2)post an introduction..

Complete both the tasks before posting..

PS: The 7.62x39 pistol has a 4ft fireball, I can't even imagine why someone would want a 7.62x51 in a 12.5 inch barrel..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiwHyXmGJtY

[FlagDayNCO]

Funny that video is from Atlantic, as I was eyeballing their PTR HK91 clone PDW. Would make a nice pistol to have in the truck in Pennsyltucky. Long rifles are NO GO, as far as keeping them locked and loaded, ammunition readily available, etc.

I have considered the PTR, as it functions like an HK91, the magazines and ammunition is already in house... I don't have to take on yet another caliber and magazine type.

Consideration for a 556 AR pistol was there, but reliability can suffer with a very short barrel, though finding the right ammunition, gas system, and buffer combination can be done.

There are also some very inexpensive 300BLK uppers available, some less expensive than obtaining all the parts and building yourself. This change would be the ammunition, as all the AR parts (except barrel and flash hider) are the same as a traditional 556 AR.

Maybe a 308 fireball will also serve the purpose of a flame thrower!

[FlagDayNCO]

JJ asked about the brace.

Several ranges are now preventing shooters from using an AR pistol with the SIG like brace, unless the owner has a copy of his/her tax stamp. I know, ARAK pistol is not an SBR, but this is where some of the ranges/ clubs want to avoid run in with ATF, or what ever agency shows up. So much for these ranges/ clubs being "pro2A", much to the overall detriment of the Second Amendment.

Rainier Arms has several pistol type buffer assemblies, one or two with rubber or padding along the tube. They have a different profile than a rifle buffer tube, so an AR type rifle stock can not fit. If there's enough padding to have a friction fit against the forearm, it can help stabilize the pistol.

http://www.rainierarms.com/phase-5-t...ol-buffer-tube

I'm sure there are other choices, but this is an idea. Some versions also fit the SIG braces.

[35NCO]

For the price and time of a SIG brace you mine as well just Form 1 the gun into an SBR. Look at it this way, the SIG brace could be questionable in many situations as a violation of NFA based on however the DOJ prosecutor is feeling that day. You will also be limited on what states you can bring the weapon as there are various restrictions on caliber/type/function in various counties and states.

The flip side is that an SBR with an approved BATFE travel 5320.20 is good in many places that an "assault weapon" is not. It is interesting and useful to know what states and counties have so called assault weapons restrictions, but still allow SBR's and MG's.

Final thought, you might want to look at velocity lost on 5.56 as a Very short SBR (VSBR). I would consider other calibers depending on your application for engagement range and effect on target.

Final pro on SBR's, my Form 1 Eforms have been getting approved in less than 30 days recently!

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by 35NCO

Final thought, you might want to look at velocity lost on 5.56 as a Very short SBR (VSBR). I would consider other calibers depending on your application for engagement range and effect on target.

Final pro on SBR's, my Form 1 Eforms have been getting approved in less than 30 days recently!

22 cal vs 30+cal,, I agree..

Do you do your own engraving? Dremel?

[35NCO]

I have punch stamp sets in various sizes that work well with practice and patience. Proper set up is key. (Solid table and a good solid backing depending on the receiver type.)

There are other better options out there. Trophy shops that are gun friendly can do it for you as well.

I have seen a lot of laser engraving recently which certainly looks best. I thought according to the ATF marking requirements that laser was a no go, but now that manufacturers are using it, the standard must have changed. No known source for that info though.

Just make sure you write your full trust name (you can not shorten it) and your town and state.

Make sure you have it marked before your form is approved, because once it is approved, you MUST be present when they are marking it. You can not leave it in anyone's custody unless it is a SOT, which requires more work for them. Better to just do it right the first time.

Per ATF:

" The
requirement that the marking be “conspicuously” placed
on the firearm means that the marking must be
wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms
manufactured on or after
January 30, 2002, the serial
number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch. "

(3) The manufacturer’s name
(or recognized abbreviation) (AGAIN, CANNOT DO THIS WITH TRUSTS!); and
(4) The city and State (or recognized abbrevia
tion) where the manufacturer maintains its place
of business.
122
7.4.3 Measuring the depth of markings
. The depth of all markings is measured from the flat surface
of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height
of serial numbers is measured as the distance
between the latitudinal ends of the
character impression bottoms (bases). "

Source:
https://www.atf.gov/file/58221/download

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

Jim

If I'm not mistaken, you were asked to 1)fill out your profile and 2)post an introduction..

Complete both the tasks before posting..

PS: The 7.62x39 pistol has a 4ft fireball, I can't even imagine why someone would want a 7.62x51 in a 12.5 inch barrel..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiwHyXmGJtY

Not with a 4-piece CNC muzzle device
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMumsBd13QI

I ditch the brace for the push-pull sling technique. Stay out of trouble and always ready for you know, for those occasions that require wearing of M40 gas mask ....concealable too, and since it's legally a pistol..
Not as controllable as with the brace, but I can still keep up with CSAT time-accuracy standards. I consider that good enough.
Not to mention the the introduction of Geisselle ALG AK trigger! Imagine AR-gold or 3-gun straight faced trigger for an AK platform. I bet Jerry Miculek can empty a whole 30 rds in M92 in less than 4 sec and keeps it all in the black

FWIW, a buddy has the M85 and it's a smooth shooting platform. Can't comment on accuracy or loss of velocity though

[DJ Urbanovsky]

If you were going to go with 5.56, I'd stick with the AR platform rather than a bastardized AK. That M85 pistol in 5.56 just seems to me like a lot of added potential for failure/malfunction. Plus with the AR pistol, if you're looking to get really small, you have the option of adding on the LAW Tactical side folding adapter. And if you decide that want more barrel or a different caliber, it's 10 seconds to swap uppers, and now you have a rifle. With the M85, you're stuck with what you've got.

There are more places in the USA where AR pistols are legal than there are where NFA stuff is legal. I have traveled from one end of the country to the other with my AR pistol, much of that in the air, and never had a single issue. It fits in a Pelican 1510 without dis-assembly. Fold it up and lock the case, and when I get where I'm going, all I have to do is load mags and it's ready to go.

With the pistol, if you decide that you want to sell it later, it's easily transferable just like any other non-NFA item. Not to mention the added paperwork that is required if you are wanting to travel with an NFA item.

[missrosalita37]

I have had no problems on our range here in Alaska. Maybe because we recognize the interference by ATF and are rather rebellious in that regard.

Jim "Chief Warrant"

[missrosalita37]

Thanks for the advice. I think I met that requirement but if I'm incorrect, would someone correct me and I'll get it done.

Jim "Chief Warrant"

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

Jim

If I'm not mistaken, you were asked to 1)fill out your profile and 2)post an introduction..

Complete both the tasks before posting..

PS: The 7.62x39 pistol has a 4ft fireball, I can't even imagine why someone would want a 7.62x51 in a 12.5 inch barrel..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiwHyXmGJtY