CAIR Moron, "Should US Veterans be Honored?"

[PRB]

CAIR and its minions are an arm of the Islamic Psyop operation aimed at undermining our Country, basic tenets, way of life.
Smart enough to use our own laws against us and smug enough to know most Americans are clueless as to their approach.
Slap hell, at some point it goes way beyond that confronting an enemy on ones own soil.

[cbtengr]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

I think these kinds of comments are bad form, even if they'd been offered in pink.

My $0.02.

Regarding your graphic, we live in a country that deals with men that beat and kill their wives and I would have it no other way. She shoots her mouth off in a way that offends me, she would not have this leeway were she to live in the Middle East. She struggles every year with Memorial Day, that really breaks me up.

How about this for bad form? Stoned to death for marrying the man she loved: Moment PREGNANT woman was murdered by 20 members of her own family in broad daylight - in front of a Pakistani city's high court

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Pakistan.html

[Streck-Fu]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

I think these kinds of comments are bad form, even if they'd been offered in pink.

My $0.02.

Because domestic abuse extended to murder is a defined cultural and religious norm in America.

[The Reaper]

Sharia says that violence against women is not a real crime, and women are for breeding. I wonder how Ms. Feminist Anarchist rationalizes that?

Sigaba, I wonder how many of those domestic abuse dots are just being good Muslims?

Curious that she demeans the force that guarantees her right to make statements against the beliefs of her former countrymen and religion.

TR

[TOMAHAWK9521]

I'm glad you gents have already brought this up. I about lost my mind when I read that article. I figured if I let tact and eloquence go out the window and really cut loose about how that article got my dander up I'd wind up getting some schoolin' from some of the wiser sages on this forum on such things as professionalism and etiquette.


Still, I'm about fed up with CAIR and their ilk. They need a collective throat punch.

[GratefulCitizen]

It isn't an issue of "being honored."
They already have honor.

She doesn't understand what honor is.
She's confusing it with praise or popularity.

Honor is not something which can be bestowed or withheld.
It can only be recognized and illuminated.

She can choose not to recognize their honor.
This would have about as much effect as her choosing not to recognize the law of gravity.

By failing to recognize their honor she only succeeds in illuminating her own dishonor.

[Airbornelawyer]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

I think these kinds of comments are bad form, even if they'd been offered in pink.

My $0.02.

Sigaba, your attachment and its apples-and-oranges comparisons is as ignorant as it is offensive, and you should be embarrassed to have posted it. Irrelevant to this thread, unless you genuinely believe to be serious the joking comments made regarding a person who claims to be a Muslimah feminist despite the way Islam in general treats women's rights. There are many places in the Muslim world where women are treated much better than in places like Saudi Arabia or in Taliban-controlled areas, but even the most liberal Muslim societies are well behind the West in their treatment of women. The freedoms this woman enjoys, paid for in the blood of the very men and women she insults, are well beyond what one finds for women in general even in places like Turkey, Pakistan and Indonesia where some individual Muslim women have managed to make strides.

I - and no doubt many others here - have worked with actual "Muslim feminists", men and women risking their lives to improve the plight of women in the Muslim world and trying to achieve actual reform. And where ijn your graph are the women not killed by the Taliban in mass executions in Kabul since 2001-02? You are up against a lot of attitudes that pervade society, so Afghan women still face difficulties beyond the imagination of many effete Western liberals, but can you honestly say they would be better off if the West - and its military men and women - had left the Taliban to go on its merry way?

And back to your attachment and its comparison. At least a quarter of the victims of terrorist attacks in the US were women, as were about 140 of those killed in OEF/OIF. On which side of your ledger do they belong? And if the 9-11 terrorists been more successful, hitting the Twin Towers lower, destroying all the stairwells and elevators, cutting off more people on higher floors, hitting later in the day when more than 100,000 workers and tourists were there, and causing the collapse sooner giving less time for those on lower floors to escape - if 100,000 died on September 11, based on your math, or the math of whoever created that chart, how many more women can be abused or killed then to keep it all even?

Especially now, with the most recent act of violence against women by Boko Haram still near the front pages, to denigrate in the name of feminism the sacrifice of those who gave their lives fighting that group's ideological brethren, is, frankly, disgusting.

[Airbornelawyer]

And, by the way, forget about her sex. How well does anyone think a "litigious, feminist, hippie, anarchist, outspoken, rebellious, socially conscious" man would thrive in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan and Pakistan?

Or Syria? Assad doesn't particularly like Islamists, and the Ba'ath sees itself as socially conscious, so I'm sure a hippie anarchist would be as welcome in Damascus as in San Francisco.

[Firelord]

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen

It isn't an issue of "being honored."
They already have honor.

She doesn't understand what honor is.
She's confusing it with praise or popularity.

Honor is not something which can be bestowed or withheld.
It can only be recognized and illuminated.

She can choose not to recognize their honor.
This would have about as much effect as her choosing not to recognize the law of gravity.

By failing to recognize their honor she only succeeds in illuminating her own dishonor.

Extremely Well Said!

[sinjefe]

Sigaba, I have to say I saw that post (graph) as an especially egregious case of moral relativism.

[Golf1echo]

Doesn't anyone read this book any more?
http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friend.../dp/0671027034
I'd buy her a copy and send it if I thought it would make a difference... She is taking away not putting back in, I question whether she would want to live in the world she is working at...probably hasn't thought that through, that is not where her power is.

Why is she here?

[Box]

Fuck that litigious, feminist, hippie, anarchist, outspoken, rebellious, socially conscious cunt...

...I only wish upon her all that she deserves in accorance with her chosen set of idealogical beliefs. Hopefully whichever man her family decides to sell her to as a bride is nice enough to let her sleep on the good rug.

[Richard]

I remember a group of guys drafted with me who thought ALL wars were illegal and immoral. They went through BCT wearing an OD baseball cap and that sage green raincoat we used to have over their civilian clothing because they refused to wear anything with any sort of militant purpose to it. They also didn't wear ID tags or accept ID cards because they didn't believe in a secular government registration of people, and would not undertake any training that had to do with weapons or fighting. They were given additional medical training, placed in the IRR, and sent back to their home states when we went on to our AIT assignments.

It taught me that America is a big country with room for many opinions, even if I did not agree with them all, and that people's minds are more likely to change through observation than argument.

Richard

[Tree Potato]

Originally Posted by PRB

CAIR and its minions are an arm of the Islamic Psyop operation aimed at undermining our Country, basic tenets, way of life.
Smart enough to use our own laws against us and smug enough to know most Americans are clueless as to their approach.
Slap hell, at some point it goes way beyond that confronting an enemy on ones own soil.

It amazes me how many people in our society don't get this. Does no one see what has been going on in Europe?

As a society we need to openly call it what it is but the oppression of PC-speak has weakened us. Somehow we need to aggressively confront these enemies and make their psyop attempts irrelevant.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer

Sigaba, your attachment and its apples-and-oranges comparisons is as ignorant as it is offensive, and you should be embarrassed to have posted it.

I stand by the post. I reject your charge of ignorance.

Ms. Billoo, albeit in an inarticulate and inappropriate manner, has reminded us that all American wars have been unpopular. In response to sensibilities such as hers, other Americans have, over the centuries, developed increasingly sophisticated replies that are politically, philosophically, legally, morally, ethically, culturally, and historically sustainable. This sprawling discourse positions soldiers and civilians alike to understand that the memorialization of the men and women who have died in defense of the republic is neither a celebration of war nor a referendum on the causes, course, and consequences of any specific conflict. This tapestry of exploration, of communication, and of reflection empowers all American civilians to understand better--but always incompletely--that our ways of life are only possible because of the sacrifices the honorable dead have made.

By her own admission, Ms. Billoo struggles with these concepts. To me, her confusion is a potential opportunity for a broader dialog about a shared national identity in which wars have played a key role in shaping.

Yet, instead of seizing this opportunity to encourage her to learn more about her country's history, and thereby find reasons to honor the fallen, many Americans have taken it upon themselves to turn a teaching opportunity into a referendum upon Muslims, liberals, foreigners, and women.

IRT the last, as you well know, many Americans are, right or wrong, more concerned about violence against women than GWOT and, right or wrong, view phantasies of violence against women as part of a spectrum that includes actual physical violence against women. And, right or wrong, many of these same Americans believe that the political right is waging a "war" upon women.

So now, instead of having a conversation with Ms. Billoo and those who agree with her POV about Memorial Day, we now also have a brawl over issues centered around gender identity. (If you believe that I'm speaking out of ignorance, please check the time stamp on my post and compare it to the time stamps in Ms. Billoo's Twitter feed <<LINK>>.)

Turning now to Sinjefe's charge of "moral relativism" offered in post #28, I respectfully offer a reply and ask a rhetorical question. First, the question. How are those who want all Americans to respect the Second Amendment going to square that desire with the practice of degrading Americans who exercise their right to say, to think, and to worship as they see fit?

Now the reply. Many American women feel unsafe in their own country <<LINK2>>. The purpose of the graphic was to illustrate that such feelings are not without factual basis and to suggest that comments aimed to make a woman uncomfortable by presenting a range of counterfactual scenarios that imply violence and that ignore the fact that she's an American citizen is not the best way to get her to reconsider her POV.