SF Changing - Page 2

**Team Sergeant** · 03-24-2008, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ak68w

In his book Roughneck 91, retired SFC Frank Antenori repeatedly became frustrated with the fact that his chain of command simply wasn't willing to take the risks needed to accomplish the mission. Is this an isolated incident, or do you see this as a large trend? I hope I'm not out of line for asking this.

Why don't you ask Frank Antenori, he is a member of this board.

As far as your question goes, while it may not be "out of line" I don't think you're going to get a lot of QP discussion on the topic on public forums.

Now you got sit in the corner and ask yourself, Why?

Team Sergeant

tom kelly · 03-24-2008, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ak68w

Yes Sir I guess I do. Do I like living on the edge? I'd say that I'm by no means an adrenaline junkie (I study math all day for Gods sake!), but I do feel that the mission comes first, and if that means taking risks, so be it.

Now, I think that's extremely different from putting yourself at unnecessary risk just for the sake of "bein' cool" and "hey, I did this on Halo 2 once!" Those people are best off staying on the damn video game...they don't get me killed that way!

I hope that answers your question, Sir.

A math professor once told me that " math does not take great ability,talent, or skill, you only have to follow the rules and apply them". You need to use the search button and read more. Regards, tom kelly

Guy · 03-24-2008, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ak68w

Yes Sir I guess I do. Do I like living on the edge? I'd say that I'm by no means an adrenaline junkie (I study math all day for Gods sake!), but I do feel that the mission comes first, and if that means taking risks, so be it.

Now, I think that's extremely different from putting yourself at unnecessary risk just for the sake of "bein' cool" and "hey, I did this on Halo 2 once!" Those people are best off staying on the damn video game...they don't get me killed that way!

I hope that answers your question, Sir.

We use it every day! The SOB that slid off of five-stories to his death was not adding at the time.

SF ain't NO joke!

Stay safe.

Ak68w · 03-24-2008, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom kelly

A math professor once told me that " math does not take great ability,talent, or skill, you only have to follow the rules and apply them". You need to use the search button and read more. Regards, tom kelly

That professor was dead on the money, Sir. I wasn't saying I study math to sound smart, but merely to show that I'm not some dumbass kid who wants to go play Call of Duty in real life. This is something I take very seriously. I can see, however, that it would be easy to interpret my comments as elitist, though in NO capacity do I mean them that way! I apologize to any who interpret my comments as such, and will try to write more clearly in the future.

Richard · 03-24-2008, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark46th

When I went through in 1971, we had Phase I at Mackall(4 Weeks). I went through this in February.

After BCT (8 wks), Ldrshp School (2 wks), 12B training (8 wks), RVN booby trap course (2 wks), and BAC (3 wks), I went through Phase 1 the same time as Mark. After Phase 1, we took the REMICK test (for 05Bs) and a plea was made for those wanting to switch to try for Medic. I then went through Medic Phase 1 at Bragg (8 wks), then 300F-1 at FSH (14 wks), rotations at Reynolds Army Hospital Ft Sill (6 wks), Dog Lab (8 wks), and then Phase 3. I graduated in June 72 and assigned to the 7th SFG.

In a nutshell, the old course was tailored to meet the needs of SF and the entry levels of those reporting to SFTG.

I already spoke Spanish so further language schooling, SERE, etc all came once assigned to Group.

Richard

SFS0AVN · 03-25-2008, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

The program has changed over the years, some for the better some for other reasons. The one constant that has not changed is the commitment and character of the SF soldier. While each was a product of various programs they all matured at the hands, and sometimes the boot, of the troops on the team regardless of the creds that they initially carried across the teamroom threshold.

To add to the COL's post, the program will continually change over the years in order to keep up with modernization and the AO.

mark46th · 03-25-2008, 21:32

Hey Rich- That was one cold month at Mackall in February, eh?

Richard · 03-26-2008, 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark46th

Hey Rich- That was one cold month at Mackall in February, eh?

Mark,

Oh yes! Drowning Creek was no fun that month. Remember how so many guys quit right there near the end when we were on patrol in the swamps and it was sleeting and so cold? No fires, no shelters, just soaked to the skin and uncontrollable shivering. Bear Martin and Richmond Nail talked a lot of our classmates into just giving up and going in to a warm tent during that last week.

Richard

mark46th · 03-27-2008, 19:04

I asked Dan F why he didn't quit that night. He said he was frozen to the tree he was leaning against and couldn't get loose...

Richard · 03-27-2008, 21:01

My ass was frozen to the ruck I was sitting on to keep it out of the swamp we were in for the RON that night. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!! !!!!

Richard

lksteve · 03-27-2008, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

My ass was frozen to the ruck I was sitting on...

Summer Ranger, Summer Q Course...

mark46th · 03-27-2008, 22:56

Lksteve- Too bad! Nothing like having to break the ice on Drowning creek so we could do the Slide for Life. Or jumping into Big Muddy when the water temp is 33 degrees! The good news was if the air temp was under 10 degrees, we didn't have to run...

I think 50 or 60 guys quit that night in the swamp.

SF_BHT · 03-28-2008, 05:55

Everyone should have to do it in the winter and freeeeeezzzzeeeeee.

Our class was frozen one night during our last ambush in phase 1. We laid down to wait and it started sleeting and we were frozen in to the ground with our ponchos draped over us. The TAC in the morning called it as he was trapped inside his and we had to cut some people out of the frozen mess. We built a fire so BIG that it started raining on us from the melting ice. Really slow walk back to Camp Mackall since the trucks that we were supposed to ambush could not drive on the fire breaks. No one had a problem getting a fire started that day when the TAC called the training exercise. Will never forget that patrol..

GaretTrooper · 03-28-2008, 06:42

Dec 68 we were supposed to jump into phase II but it was ice storming so bad they closed Pope for the season. We drove out in open cattle trucks in the ice storm. When we got on site we couldn't start fires for tactical conditions so we all ended up under our ponchos with our m-16's. One of the coldest f'ng nights I ever had to put up with. Now back to the question.
Prior to the big push for SF in the late 60's to get into SF you had to be on your second enlistment and at least a SGT(E-5). I don't remember anything about MOS requirements don't think there were any.
When I went through in 68 there were three phases, Phase I, MOS and PhaseII. Phase I was basically patrolling, land nav, some IAD training. It seemed like IIB school to me just more concentrated.
MOS training time varied from the shortest course - Engineers to the longest - Medic. I wanted to be a Medic but was stuck in Commo because I maxed the RMIK test. I came in an 11B and left an 05BS.
Phase II taught you some Special Ops history, how to work with G’s and give classes. Plus more patrolling, etc. During the FTX for phase II my A-team had 23 members because of the big push. The A-team CDR was a Maj in the Chaplin Corp assigned to one of the groups. We had four 05B's on the team. Since I was the lowest rank (SP/4) I was stuck as the assistant to the Assistant Team SGT and wound up on every patrol we ever ran.
Before I hit the ground at Bragg the phase I FTX was conducted in the woods across the street, Gruber Rd if I remember right, from the barracks. After graduation we were all asked to fill out a questionnaire on what we thought of the course and what could be done to improve it. A group of us got together and determined we would all recommend a longer FTX phase.
A couple years after graduation I was BS'ng with a buddy who came after me in the Q-course and asked him about training. He was pissed because the entire phase I had shifted to MacKall. Apparently, all the classes suggested longer field training.
There was no Selection phase. You were assigned to SF Schools PCS. If you flunked then you were re-assigned to somewhere else. Since you were airborne that generally meant the 82nd. That PCS move is why the Selection phase was created, to stop the expense of a lot of PCS moves. There was no SERE, nor language training provide as part of the Q-course.

lksteve · 03-28-2008, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark46th

Too bad! Nothing like having to break the ice on Drowning creek so we could do the Slide for Life. Or jumping into Big Muddy when the water temp is 33 degrees! The good news was if the air temp was under 10 degrees, we didn't have to run...

Two winters at Devens, four winters at Toelz, three winters at Fort Wainwright...I can safely say I have been cold, wet, miserable...slept in snow caves, slept on windswept ridges where I wish I could have been in a snow cave, etc., etc., etc...crossed frozen streams and all of that stuff...Richard and I got to do a slide for life in February at Fort Benning during OCS...that was enough fun for me...

Ranger School during hurricaine season is much fun...