What changes would you make to the Bravo course?

[optactical]

I went through in 98-99 and after a few years of team time I have come up with some ideas for changes based on personnal experience and also what was expected of me from the get go. Also I know with the sizes of teams today that not everyone will have the benefit that I did of having a senior who knew his shit, most guys now-a-days come onto teams as the senior.

I will not come out here and say I came on the team as a stellar performer, I had a hard time like most folks, and was in a forward stationed battalion so even more was expected of me than stateside, or so I was told. After 1 year on my team my shot group was on target and I knew what was expected of me and what to expect, I had the basics down, after 2 years I knew my job thoroughly and the system at my duty station thoroughly enough to do the senior's job with full competence and also be able to react to whatever was thrown my way. By the end of my third year I had that shit down to an artform, and was confident in everything I did, at least it felt that way I still made a jackass of myself on occassion.

My desired endstate with this thread is to find out, within OPSEC boundaries, what other B's here would change about the B course based on their experiences on a team. What would you do different in the course to prepare guys for the experiences you faced when coming to an ODA.

My offering for the discussion: I feel the course is good as it is, but needs some additions. Assembly and disassembly and familiarization with numerous weapon systems is great and necessary, in both light and heavy small arms. The mortars section was my favorite (RIP Sully) and was a great condensed version of the Benning school. Same with AT weapons. Basically everything that had to do with function and use was good, but I will always argue for more range time, even if I have enough, it's my belief we should live on the range.

Where changes should be made, and some of these changes may exist already, I am unfamiliar with the current POI:

1. Tactics, employment and use of the weapons up to a battalion level. Teach mortars tactics up to this level, same with AT employment, include PEs that aren't done in front of a computer screen.

2. Tactics on the small unit level, an easy way to acheive this is making Ranger School slots available to B course grads, this will probably go over like a fart in a spacesuit, I have my doubts whether many would want to attend. Then that whole high school college comparison comes up and it turns into a pissing contest. But the bottom line is this: The POI exists, the facilities exist and the slots are almost always there, why reinvent the wheel, if anything just make the school available in some way shape or form, whether it be before SERE or after Robin Sage, or right after the MOS training (ideal). Already qualified guys can do whatever...give me some ideas.

I know what some of you are thinking, what about the phase 2, isn't that enough SUT's to build a base, yes it is for the average team guy, but as the primary teachers of the SUT POIs down range, the B's should have some Infantry experience, and if they don't have that, the best way to get a lot quickly is the POI in Benning. There's nothing worse than a non-former Infantry guy, with no practical knowledge teaching a group of LBGs SUTs, when those very LBGs have just spent the last 6 years in combat. We teach TTPs, which are learned through hands on experience, the info found in FMs is only as good as the guy reading them. I hope that made some sense.

3. Next, make the Bs good shooters BEFORE they get on a team (I fondly remember a day on Guam with my team standing around waiting for me to qualify for about an hour, because I couldn't shoot for shit).

How do we accomplish this? Easy, send them through SOT or a SFAUC course (not SFARTAEC, slots for that school are hard enough to come by as is). The course will have to be the full course, no condensed versions here. Start with at least 2 weeks of combat marksmanship, build the muscle memory, and while teaching them to shoot, you are also teaching them how to teach the POI, not only to Booky downrange, but also to their team when they get there. Culminate this 2 weeks with a stress event, something to give the students feedback and confidence in their abilities. Next in the course move on to infantry battle drills, the last being enter and clear a room. From there teach them urban movement, and guess what, you have fully qualified guy to teach SFAUC to his team internally, or to teach any basic 7-8, AMOUT, Marksmanship, Combat Marksmanship, and Basic Patrolling to any foreign troops. If anything you have built a good foundation for him.

If this part is done right, you can integrate patrolling and SUT's so the Ranger school idea becomes something for later in the Soldier's career, giving you a better final product to send to a team.

That's it. I don't feel this post is the end all for everything, that's why I am initiating a discussion of it, the more ideas the better. Some of my ideas are not totally complete, no time frames were given, and feedback would be helpfull. I could take a group of guys and teach them from basic shooting to urban movement with all the Infantry battledrills in the middle as described above in approximately 6 weeks, maybe more, maybe less. Preferably more, since there will be problems and teaching will have to progress at a slow pace, nothing would be accelerated.

Feel free to share your opinions, call me an idiot, flame me whatever. I hope this gets some good feedback and starts a good discussion.

PLEASE: DO NOT come on here and say we should give HALO slots to all course grads or some retarded shit like that. HALO is a great school, but it will not make you patrol or shoot better, same with SCUBA. Let's stay focused on the task I am addressing: delivering Bs to teams that have the preparation to teach their teams SUTs and shooting on a competent enough level that the experience is beneficial for the team.

Thanks in advance for all replies, I'll be watching this thread. Right now I just hope I am not the only B out there who is currently active duty and on an A team who reads this forum.

Sneaky, Razor and Psywar, this is a thread inspired by the one that got moved to the closed forum of LF's forum. Hope you fuckers are doing well, long time no hear from you.

[Psywar1-0]

OPT,

Great to see ya around. Im still knocking around down here, but looking at a possible change in AO.

Not being a Bravo I cant really add much here except for a couple general observations/questions.

1. How much time is spent in the course learing field exp weapons repair? IE what parts you can rob from an AK to fix a Galil, what parts of a M60 you can replace with Safety wire ect.

2. How about a basic list of parts(AO specific) for what a team should deploy with to fix HN weapons and be able support their own weapons.

I add these observations/questions based on my working with Bravo's downrange and having to come up with unique ways of getting HN weapons back in a somewhat working order.

[Viking]

I think you are right on. Especially the comment on the mortars. I'm a Bravo and I've been on a team about 1 1/2 years. The course barely scratched the surface on heavy weapons in my case. I didn't hardly see a mortar during last years deployment so I really didn't get any practice. I've been downrange for about six months on this trip and I've had to teach 60mm, 81mm, 82mm, 120mm mortars to indig. Along with the FDC that goes along with it. The SUT teaching wasn't that hard because I was 11B before. I wish I had learned more in the course on heavy weapons or at least been able to keep some good reference materials to learn from. When I got to the team there was little to be found in the way of learning materials (FMs, TMs etc...) I've done some scrounging and gotten some good stuff now. just my .02 cents worth.

[longrange1947]

First of all Small unit tactics and patrolling should have been taught in what ever in the hell they are now calling the phase before MOS when you are at Mackall. We called it Phase I and it was a patrolling and tactics, movement, recon ambush raid, etc course. The 18Bs are not he only ones that need that.

Ranger school no. Why you ask? Because a lot of Ranger school is not needed and is a waste. If they taught Mackall as they should instead of touchy feely crap then you would get the tactics.

Dump SERE and teach guys to fight not to be captured, my opinion sorry if I just ruffled feathers. Spend that time on the range and doing patrolling.

Opps not even talking about 18B yet. I do not care what MOS you have you need to do all the above and do it well. Stop focusing on Iraq only and focus on our core jobs. I spent time as a lowly E-5 team medic as one of two NCOs at a training camp teaching mortars and patrolling to tribesmen. Sure was glad they beat that crap in my head at Mackall.

Now 18B. Again stop the touchy feelly and go back to teaching and doing. As you said, the range time is critical and not just to shoot but to learn how to teach it. Remember that is your job. Do the weapons by the numbers and then teach them. Do FDC and teach it.

As far as HALO and SCUBA, they are only ways into the fight, not the fight. I have never heard of an enemy being HALO'ed to death. At least SCUBA can do recon of a beach for the Marines to hit.

My two cents. Let the fun begin.

[Ambush Master]

Originally Posted by SF718

I definatly think range week should be at least 5 days of CMMS.
If possible, maybe go into weapon ballistics and more focus on team organic weapon systems i.e. proper zeroing with all sights ( explanations of weather and MOA, Ballistics) from iron to EOtech. I think someone mentioned field expedient repairs. I know i wouldnt have enjoyed it much but there is the necessity of knowing the paperwork side ( 2404's, 123 reps.). Maybe some visibility on that.
Vehicular weapon mounting lessons learned (among the other myriad of things)
i understand that if you get a squared away senior alot of this stuff should be passed on But in my case i was the senior when i showed up and it was a slightly rocky road for at least the first 6 months that i was on a det.
Mortars have always seemed to be one of the things that seperates a bravo but where ive been it has been a hard skill to sustain ( can anyone agree?). Ive had to do some serious last minute sustainment training on that once or twice. Im not sure how they can improve on that, In all honesty when i went through the course i thought they did a thorough job on that (along with everything else for that matter).
I think SFAUC should be its own phase with stringent grading.

thanks
den

den!!

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Take care.
Martin