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Old 11-28-2004, 13:46   #31
luv2swm
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Comforting the dogs

Just a Question--Why is it not okay to use ripple soles and double sock systems (like sock liners) in ranger and sfas? I understand the whole toughening up your feet and taking pain concept, but if a person rucks for over 20 miles and has chopped liver for feet then does the same thing with a thin pair of sock liners and/or ripple soles and comes out with blister free dogs, what's wrong with using these things? What's wrong with letting someone use these things if it helps increase their combat effectiveness?
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Old 11-28-2004, 17:48   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2swm
Just a Question--Why is it not okay to use ripple soles and double sock systems (like sock liners) in ranger and sfas? I understand the whole toughening up your feet and taking pain concept, but if a person rucks for over 20 miles and has chopped liver for feet then does the same thing with a thin pair of sock liners and/or ripple soles and comes out with blister free dogs, what's wrong with using these things? What's wrong with letting someone use these things if it helps increase their combat effectiveness?
1. We want people who can follow simple instructions.

2. This isn't a Gucci gear contest. Let's say that we had no restrictions, and you are a PV2 making barely enough to feed your family. Your bunkmate is a CPT who is independently wealthy and has spent over $2000 on high-end gear to make him more likely to be selected. You have both prepared equally, who do you think has the better chance? If it isn't issued don't bring it. If you do, don't be surprised if we confiscate it, and IVW you for inability to follow a simple packing list.

3. To extend your logic of "What's wrong with letting someone use these things if it helps increase their combat effectiveness", you could use a GPS and a QuadRunner, or better yet, a helicopter to be more effective at land nav, but we will not let you. Is that fair as well?

Have a very SF day.

TR
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Old 11-28-2004, 19:13   #33
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Excellent points, esp. following the rules, simple packing list. I've thought of and discussed with other people the cost factor. What if it's something as simple as wearing a pair of thin, black Army dress socks, already issued and you can just continually flip them inside out as needed, it really does help eliminate an awful lot of friction blisters. Some guys even use panty hose (their wives, moms or whatever is covered under the don't ask don't tell policy )
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Old 11-29-2004, 09:36   #34
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Or, you could do a lot of rucking in preparation, and have tough feet regardless of what socks you wear.
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Old 11-29-2004, 10:19   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2swm
Just a Question--Why is it not okay to use ripple soles and double sock systems (like sock liners) in ranger and sfas? I understand the whole toughening up your feet and taking pain concept, but if a person rucks for over 20 miles and has chopped liver for feet then does the same thing with a thin pair of sock liners and/or ripple soles and comes out with blister free dogs, what's wrong with using these things? What's wrong with letting someone use these things if it helps increase their combat effectiveness?

This is the sock requirement from the SFAS packing list.

You did read the "Please Read" thread at the top of the SFAS Forum which listed a link to this, didn't you?

5 PR. SOCKS, GREEN/BLACK ARMY OR CIVILIAN WOOL/COTTON - NO POLYPRO/GORTEX

2 PR. SOCKS, WHITE COTTON

The older version used to specifically state that bringing Dress Socks could be grounds for relief.

SFAS is not combat. Get through the SFQC, join a team, go to combat and wear whatever you want.

While in SF training, I recommend that you follow instructions to the letter and put the effort into toughening your feet properly. Several guys I know wear jungle boots with no socks at all. If your feet are tough enough, socks/boots are irrelevant. If you do not wish to spend the time and effort preparing, you should probably look for another line of work.

You are beginning to strike me as a Gex X/Y slacker who cannot follow instructions, looks for the easy way out, and who has problems with authority.

Good luck.

TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

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Old 11-29-2004, 11:37   #36
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Gucci, yar...

I have to admit I love all the new, high function Tactical Tafetta out there, and I will also admit I graduated from the Q in the latter Pleistoscene, but what ever happened to just glueing your army wool socks to your feet with Tincture of benzoin, putting on your boots, web gear and ruck, and just going to blows with your brain? For me, after the first month of training, rucking always ceases to be about my feet, back, knees, etc. It all comes down to what your brain can deal with and how well. It's almost like the youth don't understand that the whole selection / training process is teaches that success is found INSIDE the man, not in his kit. All your cool gear will fail you when you need it most, the only thing you will have for sure, that you can control, is your spirit. Look at the Afghans who walk in sandals over mountains that we would empty REI before we touched. In Khartoum, the Sudanese Army Signal School would run from their barracks to the airport in boots and BDU's to hold graduation ceremonies... and that was 25 miles. To be successful, all you really need is a rucksack full of ammunition, a functioning radio and a positive mental attitude. Almost everything else is sugar. Just my HO.
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Old 11-29-2004, 22:49   #37
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Yep, Kinda

Authority, I have no prob with, but I am a geek (physics degree) who thinks too much and am realizing quickly that I need to start kick'in my ass. Because I see that it really doesn't matter who or what kicks your ass and how many times, but how hard you can kick it yourself. Which is a topic I've been trying to find in other threads. About self-motivation and dealing with certain pains or weaknesses that we have as people. To start, I don't whine and haven't quit, and I realize that everything is mental. I've also read a lot of your (Reaper) and NDD's threads and replys and have found a lot of valuable thoughts, esp about doing what you hate and doing it first and often, I like to think in my head that "I love it when it sucks" (heard it somewhere and works for me), but I'm wondering what other people think esp, those of you who know how many steps are in 100m high-crawlin, low-crawlin, high-steppin, runnin, in boots, flip-flops and bare foot (with a couple of summersaults, front hand springs, and back flips )
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Old 11-30-2004, 03:39   #38
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one caveat on the Neet's Foot Oil immersion boot treatment.

1. I used it years, even decades ago, before high-speed boots were even invented. Remember that the last time that I humped a ruck was 1992. Take any guidance that I publish accordingly. At this point, it is, as the saying goes, history.

2. I used it when the Army, and SF, had policies in effect that required the use of issued equipment only.

It represented a relatively low-tech solution to a problem that existed at that time. It very well may be obsolete now. Better solutions may be available, or policies which make it less desirable may be in place.

On socks:

1. Sock selection was based on environmental considerations, and boot fit was critical.

2. If I was operating in a hot, humid, jungle environment, I often skipped wearing socks altogether. My jungle boots were fitted accordingly. I TRAINED that way. My feet were toughened. I used tincture of benzoin as needed to toughen soft spots and blisters, and I drove the fuck on. As was aptly pointed out, boots are a luxury. You could fight wearing sandals, or even barefoot. Others do.

3. If I was operating in a cooler, forested environment, I typically wore Army issue leather boots, and usually, just polypro sock liners. I rarely wore issue wool socks. They tended to bunch up too much, and they tended to make my feet sweat too much. I learned the hard way that wet feet often became macerated, weak feet. Keeping feet dry kept them warm. When I lagered up, I would pull on a pair of Gore-tex booties. I did not move in them. I wore them when I was in the patrol base. If there was a possibility that I would have to move in a hurry, I sucked it up and had cold feet.

4. I got to a point where I rarely used issue wool socks at all. Using polypro sock liners made it possible to carry a LOT of socks, and that made it possible to change socks often, and to keep the feet dry. I did use commercial inserts. I no longer remember what they were made of....but they were expensive...I remember being unimpressed by Sorbothane...it seemed like inserts made from Sorbothane (sp?) made my feet hurt MORE...but I do remember that the inserts that I used had a "friction-less surface," and when combined with the polypro inserts, I rarely had a problem with blisters.

Of course, in those days, my feet were like rocks, anyway. I was accustomed to spending hours on my feet, and to walking for miles upon miles up and down rugged terrain with my house on my back.

As was also mentioned in this thread: there are no short-cuts for doing the hard work. You have to do the mileage, you have to toughen the mind and the body, and the rest of it, they are just tools that help a little bit here and there.

But a little bit gained here, and a little bit gained there...all that shit adds up. As you gain in field craft, you get to a point where you can be truly comfortable in the bush.
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Old 12-07-2004, 21:15   #39
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I got a question about some boots, My recruiter (Who really isnt a recruiter but a 19D) said that in Feburary that the Army will be gettin some new desert boot for standard issue or something like that. Do you guys know anythin about this?
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Old 12-07-2004, 22:06   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gits
I got a question about some boots, My recruiter (Who really isnt a recruiter but a 19D) said that in Feburary that the Army will be gettin some new desert boot for standard issue or something like that. Do you guys know anythin about this?
I got an answer for you. I can tell you how to get a Google tool bar.

It is very handy for running down info, rather than bugging busy people.

Army Times is also online and is a valuable resource for rumor control.

You need the links?

TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

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Old 12-07-2004, 22:12   #41
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Sorry about botherin yall but I Just can't see to find any luck with google especially with all these sites selling boots and for Me the search button on the Armytimes website is broken Im gettin ht://Dig error but I'll keep lookin around and hopfully I'll find it.
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Old 12-24-2004, 00:54   #42
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Boots, blisters, socks

OK.... olderish thread but a newish guy to this site.

For any guys headed to what it is now known as Q school. Reaper, sandytroop and magician just told you how it is!! When I was in SFTG, '69 I/we all went in with regular Army issue boots, socks and everything else. There were no options.

From what I have read out here, there alot of good ideas for softening boots and special type socks, when I was there the high tech didn't exist, and if it did, as Reaper pointed out, most of us couldn't afford the stuff anyway. (Note: After I got out... I bought the first generation Gortex, polypropylene socks, long johns, etc,reason being layering and wicking and waterproofing). Cause I spent a ton of miserable conditions while in. HELL, I don't care what one might have.... "miserable".... WILL be part of the equation in SF. ( Anyone here remember those Bladder Canteens? Never mind. Back to post.

I don't exactly know what the training is like now, I do know this though.... It's still a BIT*H. First thing we did in Phase 1 every morning was a 5 mile run, usually with weapons (M-14) at Port Arms. Near as I can remember, at times also with rucks.
BTW.... Through the past couple three decades, I see on Posts and on TV, Soldiers.... even in Basic.... running in tennis shoes!!!!! WTF!!!!!??????.

I'll stop now.... but God help ya if you don't listen to the experienced professionals out here..... Damn, wish a site like this was available when I was going in. You will HURT... SUFFER.... no matter what stuff you can take.,,, Ain't that cool? ?

PS.... neetsfoot oil always worked on my baseball gloves since I was 8 or so.
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