Army Does Away With Age-Specific Scoring in New Combat Fitness Test

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by scooter

No, if you look up "ARMY COMBAT READINESS TEST" in google

Thanks, found it: https://armarksman.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/acrt.pdf

[Old Dog New Trick]

So it would be my understanding from this article that combat MOS’s will have a new more demanding fitness test. This will include all those soldiers who are front line deployable. (Although everyone from a clerk to a non-combat support troop is ultimately an 11B.) Within this new test there is a minimum and a maximum but it really is pass/fail.

What standards does the rest of the Army use to ensure equality and non-bias in selection for assignments, special training, promotion and other qualifications for service?

I’ve always been for one standard regardless of size, sex, age or any other discriminating factors. You either meet the established minimum, exceed it, or can’t do it. Special units or demanding positions can and should be allowed to create higher minimum standards but everyone takes the same test.

Everyone is judged by the same requirements to serve and be promoted based on merit and test scores only.

JMO

[Leozinho]

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/07/09...2020/#comments

Decent article here explaining the new events, which I think is a bigger deal than the fact that it’s age-neutral.

It seems to be a better measure of combat fitness than the current test. The addition of deadlifts alone is worth the change.

We all know the current test does nothing to encourage absolute strength and unnecessarily rewards the skinny guys, some of whom fold when wearing full battle rattle and have to pick up anything heavier than a MRE.

(I was a lean 160lbs from Basic until the end of the Q course and most of my training was geared around maxing the PT test and ruck marching. Had this test been around, it would have pushed me to get stronger while still having a good 2-mile run time. It wasn’t until I was on a team that I added strength training.)

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

So it would be my understanding from this article that combat MOS’s will have a new more demanding fitness test. This will include all those soldiers who are front line deployable. (Although everyone from a clerk to a non-combat support troop is ultimately an 11B.) Within this new test there is a minimum and a maximum but it really is pass/fail.

What standards does the rest of the Army use to ensure equality and non-bias in selection for assignments, special training, promotion and other qualifications for service?

I’ve always been for one standard regardless of size, sex, age or any other discriminating factors. You either meet the established minimum, exceed it, or can’t do it. Special units or demanding positions can and should be allowed to create higher minimum standards but everyone takes the same test.

Everyone is judged by the same requirements to serve and be promoted based on merit and test scores only.

JMO

The test will be for everyone, it is REPLACING the APFT as the Army's PT test of record. The APFT will go the way of the banana suit and the run-dodge-run. They may require different scores for different jobs/schools/MOS's, which is already standard practice in SOF right now. The difference is that other combat arms branches may now do the same thing.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Cool

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Leozinho

I was a lean 160lbs from Basic until the end of the Q course and most of my training was geared around maxing the PT test and ruck marching. Had this test been around, it would have pushed me to get stronger while still having a good 2-mile run time. It wasn’t until I was on a team that I added strength training.

Beyond the other benefits of this new test (e.g., better overall fitness evaluation), you hit upon a likely secondary effect that I think will better the entire force--people training to the test. Even though many folks correctly state that the current APFT is only intended as a snapshot of general endurance fitness and should not be the focus of a soldier's fitness program, the reality is that a majority of Army units appear to build their PT programs based on push ups, sit ups and a 2-mile run. Perhaps now when units and individuals inevitably focus most if not all of their fitness training on passing the ACFT they will at least benefit from a more comprehensive fitness model.

[PRB]

Scooter thanks for that 'test' report...hard to visualize the test and its overall effectiveness without that kind of input.

I really like the non gender no age gig..... we shall see what we shall see....I was unaware of the female Infantry types myself....knw it was coming did not know it was here.

[Pete]

So a soldier scores enough to pass the minimum but not enough to be in the Combat Arms?

Will that soldier be put out or reclassified to a non-Combat Arms MOS?

What if lots of troops decide they don't want to do the Combat Arms thing anymore?

[PRB]

Originally Posted by Pete

So a soldier scores enough to pass the minimum but not enough to be in the Combat Arms?

Will that soldier be put out or reclassified to a non-Combat Arms MOS?

What if lots of troops decide they don't want to do the Combat Arms thing anymore?

Wanting to be in the combat arms will always over ride a test that can be achieved with hard work.....did instituting SFAS dry up the SF volunteer's?

As to promotion one competes within their MOS...and...there are more senior NCO positions within the Combat Arms than in other fields.

This is a positive....if they cannot make the grade, are not willing to work for it...they would be the first to fail in combat physically and mentally.

[Mustang Man]

Originally Posted by Leozinho

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/07/09...2020/#comments

Decent article here explaining the new events, which I think is a bigger deal than the fact that it’s age-neutral.

It seems to be a better measure of combat fitness than the current test. The addition of deadlifts alone is worth the change.

We all know the current test does nothing to encourage absolute strength and unnecessarily rewards the skinny guys, some of whom fold when wearing full battle rattle and have to pick up anything heavier than a MRE.

(I was a lean 160lbs from Basic until the end of the Q course and most of my training was geared around maxing the PT test and ruck marching. Had this test been around, it would have pushed me to get stronger while still having a good 2-mile run time. It wasn’t until I was on a team that I added strength training.)

I clicked the article and noticed the dead lift image had a soldier using a trap bar. Is the new test going to be using a barbell or trap bar for the event? I'm in favor of the trap, even intermediate lifters can be prone to injury on a barbell, trap bar reduces that while engaging the movement and muscles in a very similar way.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Mustang Man

I clicked the article and noticed the dead lift image had a soldier using a trap bar. Is the new test going to be using a barbell or trap bar for the event? I'm in favor of the trap, even intermediate lifters can be prone to injury on a barbell, trap bar reduces that while engaging the movement and muscles in a very similar way.

The hex bar (trap bar) is used for the 3-rep max deadlift. It is safer overall and can be taught without a lot of coaching. The Army has been using it to screen recruits entering the Army for about two years now, with good results.

[Mustang Man]

Originally Posted by scooter

The hex bar (trap bar) is used for the 3-rep max deadlift. It is safer overall and can be taught without a lot of coaching. The Army has been using it to screen recruits entering the Army for about two years now, with good results.

Awesome move on the Army! The hex grip even transfers moreover into combat application, combat litter carries first come to mind. Thanks for the info scooter.

[Fonzy]

An interesting point was brought up to m the other day:

Will the very out-dated height/weight standards be changed to reflect the desired muscle mass this PT test seems to be pushing for?

At 68" I was 3lbs shy of being put on the fatboy program weighing at 171lbs. I wore med/reg BDUs my entire enlistment.

[CSB]

The only immediate observation I made upon reviewing the proposed test is the strict timing requirements:

do this, two minutes rest,
do that, two minutes rest, repeat.

I can easily see testing for a rifle company of 140 taking all day, or even two days, and with a fistful of stopwatches timing each person.

[MAY THE RECORD REFLECT:

I did not say "testing a rifle company of 140 men," and referred
to testing each "person."

So there].

[Ret10Echo]

Originally Posted by CSB

The only immediate observation I made upon reviewing the proposed test is the strict timing requirements:

do this, two minutes rest,
do that, two minutes rest, repeat.

I can easily see testing for a rifle company of 140 taking all day, or even two days, and with a fistful of stopwatches timing each person.

[MAY THE RECORD REFLECT:

I did not say "testing a rifle company of 140 men," and referred
to testing each "person."

So there].

Are they giving these out as well?