Army Does Away With Age-Specific Scoring in New Combat Fitness Test

[JJ_BPK]

Don't disagree, but

What will the expectations be for attached and POG(REMF) slots.
Sounds like there may be different standards??

Military.com 10 Jul 2018 By Matthew Cox

If you're an infantry platoon sergeant, it doesn't matter if you're 25 or 55; all will be held to the same fitness standards with the future Army Combat Fitness Test.

The new test does away with age-specific standards and sets requirements based on job demands instead, Army officials said.

The current Army Physical Fitness Test is based on a scoring scale that does not require older soldiers to perform as well as their younger counterparts.

The new ACFT, which is scheduled to replace the APFT in October 2020, will consist of a scoring scale that's based on standards soldiers need to meet to survive in combat, according to Maj. Gen. Malcolm Frost, who is overseeing the ACFT as commanding general of the U.S. Army Center of Initial Military Training.

"The bottom line is combat does not discriminate, bullets coming at you don't discriminate, the enemy coming at you does not discriminate ... by height, by gender, by age, and, quite frankly, by what uniform you are wearing," Frost said.

"If you are a battalion O-5 or a brigade O-6 commander or command sergeant major that has been selected for the privilege to command or serve in a nominative position in a battalion or brigade in the United States Army, you must lead soldiers in combat and as such you must pass the Army Combat Fitness Test for whatever standard is designated," he said.

................

The standards might also be different for two soldiers performing different jobs in the same military occupational specialty (MOS), Frost said.

"An E7 who is serving on an Army command staff versus a sergeant first class who is a platoon sergeant in an infantry battalion -- they may be the same MOS but does that mean that the actual occupation of what they do is the same? ... All of this has to be looked at, and we have to understand them through the lens of the realities involved in the Army," he said.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...army_180710.nl

[Streck-Fu]

Just for fun, can they be called POG and Infantry standards?

<<<----- POGUS MAXIMUS AQUATICUS
The hardest thing I did was survive 5 deployments on a carrier flight deck.

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

Just for fun, can they be called POG and Infantry standards?

<<<----- POGUS MAXIMUS AQUATICUS

The hardest thing I did was survive 5 deployments on a carrier flight deck.

Exactly, If you're an Inf brigade CO, you have what?? at least 1 BN of REMF's by TO&E and another BN ad-hok attached??

In a conventional unit, these REMF's cascade down-hill to company level??

The idea of us vs them PT standards starts as a FAIL, from the get-go

PS: Do you have to pass the PT test to go outside the wire?? asking for a friend :]

[Box]

just another example of "everyone wants to be gangster until its time to do gangster shit"


people belive this drivel because most people have never actually LOOKED at a PT card to see how "equal" it already isn't

...but hey - we're going to make the PT test even more equal than it was before

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by Box

just another example of "everyone wants to be gangster until its time to do gangster shit"


people belive this drivel because most people have never actually LOOKED at a PT card to see how "equal" it already isn't

...but hey - we're going to make the PT test even more equal than it was before

AND androgynous gender dysphoria non-specific?

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

AND androgynous gender dysphoria non-specific?

Weren't they disqual'd for mental condition? Oh, wait...

[Old Dog New Trick]

MG Frost is a freakin’ genius! He deserves a special bullet point on his OER.

- In a sweeping sea change MG Malcolm Frost established the first equality test in combat physical standards. Never before in the 242 year history of the Army has such a knowledgeable officer seen the inequality of the current APFT standards by age, sex, and medical allowances for pregnancy, diabetes or temporary disability to include mental disorders. All soldiers in combat MOS will have a pass/fail (with multiple chances over several years to meet the standards applied evenly to anyone and everyone who serves in the United States Army.

- Two standards will be utilized to score soldiers in the same MOS both with a pass/fail criteria where failure is simply a third qualifying standard with approved waivers.

- All soldiers competing for promotion will be judged on the same pass/fail criteria. Those soldiers who barely pass will be judged equally competent to those soldiers who are capable of exceeding the upper limits of the criteria. Regardless of weight, sexual orientation or combat experience. Those who fail to meet the standards will still be allowed to compete for promotion (especially if they belong to any recognized minority group or special interest group) while waiting for final disposition of re-tests over a six-year period.



Why hasn’t some other TRADOC general officer thought of this before?

[Airbornelawyer]

In what ways is this not merely making official a policy which was already in effect in many units and commands? I know that when I was an infantry officer, we were all rated according to the 17-21 standard, even if the official score in your file reflected your actual age.

I can't remember if there was a separate APFT policy, but as I recall, in Group we had three sets of standards for things like road marches: one for 18-series personnel in command and team slots, one for 18-series in other slots (18Es in the SIGDET, for example), and one for support personnel. Something like 10/8/6 miles in two hours, I think.

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer

In what ways is this not merely making official a policy which was already in effect in many units and commands? I know that when I was an infantry officer, we were all rated according to the 17-21 standard, even if the official score in your file reflected your actual age.

I can't remember if there was a separate APFT policy, but as I recall, in Group we had three sets of standards for things like road marches: one for 18-series personnel in command and team slots, one for 18-series in other slots (18Es in the SIGDET, for example), and one for support personnel. Something like 10/8/6 miles in two hours, I think.

That was not an army PT standard. That was an internal SF training requirement. Some may remember SF Stakes rebranded as Validation, and I have no idea what is the new name.....

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by SF_BHT

That was not an army PT standard. That was an internal SF training requirement. Some may remember SF Stakes rebranded as Validation, and I have no idea what is the new name.....

IIRC that whole thing went the way of the DoDo bird about 2000.

[WarriorDiplomat]

So what he is saying is if E7 11B is a staff guy he will get easier standards but if he is a Platoon daddy he will be penalized with a harder test?

That is a decision that makes no sense.....is he saying that the staff E7 will be in a different competitive pool for E8 than the Platoon E7 though they are both Infantry??? does this dingleberry understand how many eligible board files the board will scrub.....does he think that the board really reads and scrutinizes those records that close?

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by WarriorDiplomat

So what he is saying is if E7 11B is a staff guy he will get easier standards but if he is a Platoon daddy he will be penalized with a harder test?

That is a decision that makes no sense.....is he saying that the staff E7 will be in a different competitive pool for E8 than the Platoon E7 though they are both Infantry??? does this dingleberry understand how many eligible board files the board will scrub.....does he think that the board really reads and scrutinizes those records that close?

That’s how I read it.

[scooter]

For what it's worth, SF has an official APFT standard of 240 (80 points per event) vs the Army's 180. That's official, in writing, in the official Army Regs, and can be the basis for kicking dudes out of NCOES courses with TRADOC's blessing. So we're already kind of doing it.

As for the test itself, it's a waaaay better test that actually measures real fitness for ground combat. I made my company do it, and everyone universally agreed it was a good measuring stick for what we do. One psycho actually MAXED the damn thing, which means that he (among other things) deadlifted 400 lbs three times while running two miles in 11:30..... where do we find these guys?

I also strongly agree with eliminating age and gender standards. The bleeding heart crowd has said we're all equal, well, now prove it. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the test, I recommend you check it out. It's an asskicker, verified by 86 SF guys.

[JJ_BPK]

I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that there are now, what about a dozen or so 11A females??

They talk about 60 points min per event, but I looked a little but could not find the point chart. eg is a 100lb deadlift = 60 and 200lb - 100 points??

There are six events in the ACFT:

• Strength Deadlift. This is a three-repetition maximum deadlift to test muscular strength; it mimics movement to safety and effectively lifting and carrying heavy loads.
• Standing Power Throw. This event involves throwing a 10-pound medicine ball as far as possible over the head and to the rear. It measures upper and lower muscular power, balance and whole body flexibility.
• Hand-Raised Push-ups. This event forces the soldier to go all the way to the floor and raise his hands before coming back up again, measuring upper-body muscular endurance.
• A 250-Meter Sprint, Drag and Carry. This is five different events within one event -- a 50-meter sprint; a backward 50-meter drag of a 90-pound sled; a 50-meter movement; a 50-meter carry of two 40-pound kettle bells; and a final 50-meter sprint. It measures muscular strength, power, speed and reaction time.
• Leg Tuck. A soldier hangs perpendicular to the pull-up bar and brings his knees up to his elbows and back down again for one repetition. It measures muscular strength, endurance and grip.
• Two-Mile Run. The ACFT retains the two-mile run portion of the APFT, whic

h is designed to measure aerobic and muscular endurance.

link: sample of each test

[scooter]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that there are now, what about a dozen or so 11A females??

They talk about 60 points min per event, but I looked a little but could not find the point chart. eg is a 100lb deadlift = 60 and 200lb - 100 points??

No, if you look up "ARMY COMBAT READINESS TEST" in google you might be able to find the current scoring. Current scoring starts super low and gets harder exponentially. Right now 30 points is passing, 100 maxing, per event. For example, 170 lbs. for the deadlift is 30 points, 300 is 80, 350 is 90, 400 is 100. The ball toss is 3 meters for 30, 14.5 meters for 100. Basically it was designed to be minimally passed by 45 year old chicks, but maxed by 21 year old Olympic male athletes.

Scoring may change, they're still gathering data from the force to see what the bell curve looks like. But the test itself is really cool in my opinion. No one finished it and said it was stupid, and it measures lots of components that the old APFT didn't really capture.

EDIT - There's actually way more female 11A's than that... I talked to a Fellow SGM in one of the Infantry BCTs on Campbell that said they had five in the brigade. Jury is still out on how it's working out....