Go Back   Professional Soldiers > The Pipeline (Special Forces Training) > 18B

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-16-2006, 14:05   #1
M4Guru
Quiet Professional
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 111
SCAR first impressions...

I recently had the opportunity to check out the SCAR-L and SCAR-H. I didn't get to fire it, and only had a few minutes to handle it and look it over before someone with a heavier collar than me got a presentation on the system. I have seen all the internet buzz, but I was wondering if any of you guys had the chance to fire it, or had any favorable/unfavorable impressions of the SCAR system. I didn't like the stock, it is very bulky but does have a good range of adjustment, and provides a decent cheek weld. There was a thread on SOCnet where it was discussed, but I didn't get the impression that anyone had actually messed with it yet at that time. I like the familiarity of having the same manipulation process for both the 7.62 and 5.56 weapons. Any other impressions/ideas/opinions?
M4Guru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2006, 14:19   #2
37F5V
Guerrilla
 
37F5V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Raeford/Colorado
Posts: 134
For what its worth I sat in on a group Q&A discussion with the USASOC CSM and got the impression that the USASOC preference is for the HK entry.
__________________
Smoke and mirrors.....
37F5V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2006, 16:14   #3
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,461
I have handled both as well, and still prefer the HK 416 and its 7.62 big brother over the jazzed up FNC.

Sorry to see the SASS project go the way it did.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2006, 18:17   #4
Chris
Guerrilla
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 179
No experience with it, but I am interested - civilian version said to be out in a year. As for the HK416, the video review of the Blackwater shootout... all the reviewers gave it a thumbs up. I was impressed with what I saw in it, clean running and reliable. Last I heard HK wasn't selling to us civilian dogs though. Maybe they'll at least sell us uppers in the future...
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2006, 19:22   #5
M4Guru
Quiet Professional
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
No experience with it, but I am interested - civilian version said to be out in a year. As for the HK416, the video review of the Blackwater shootout... all the reviewers gave it a thumbs up. I was impressed with what I saw in it, clean running and reliable. Last I heard HK wasn't selling to us civilian dogs though. Maybe they'll at least sell us uppers in the future...
I'm stashing some re-up money in hope of getting a 416. If not, I won't be heartbroken if I have to get a Leitner-Wise.
M4Guru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2006, 22:16   #6
longrange1947
Quiet Professional
 
longrange1947's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fayetteville NC
Posts: 3,533
I wouldn't play wiht a SCAR even if TR gave it to me.

Agree on the SASS contract 100% TR, wish it had gone another direction.
__________________
Hold Hard guys

Rick B.

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is knowing it is great on a hamburger but not so great sticking one up your ass.

Author - Richard.

Experience is what you get right after you need it.

Author unknown.
longrange1947 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2006, 22:30   #7
Peregrino
Quiet Professional
 
Peregrino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,643
Can't say I was impressed with it either. Time look at the HK416 or the POF. TR and I spoke with some friends this afternoon who praised the Sig - I'll have to do some research on that one. Anyboby want to start a pool about whether or not the contractor can fill the SASS contract with guns that meet spec? Peregrino
Peregrino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006, 00:11   #8
Chris
Guerrilla
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrino
TR and I spoke with some friends this afternoon who praised the Sig

Which Sig? the 556 or the new .308?
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006, 06:23   #9
M4Guru
Quiet Professional
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by longrange1947
I wouldn't play wiht a SCAR even if TR gave it to me.

Agree on the SASS contract 100% TR, wish it had gone another direction.

Is there some major flaw that makes the SCAR suck, functionally? I trust you guys more than the powerpoint on how much SOCOM says it's great. I didn't care too much for the ergonomics, but all I've done is hold the thing.

Also, just out of curiosity, what would you like to have seen in the SASS?
M4Guru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006, 07:03   #10
longrange1947
Quiet Professional
 
longrange1947's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fayetteville NC
Posts: 3,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrino
Anyboby want to start a pool about whether or not the contractor can fill the SASS contract with guns that meet spec? Peregrino
Hell no, they are already almost a year behind on another contract.

SCAR is being pushed by a few but most recognize it as a piece of crap. It is not ready yet, about 80% finished, and it sucks ergonomically. The picatinney rails are add ons becasue they wanted to go to a propreitary bouble prong system that would have made all of the mounts presently used useless. Anyone want to guess on who would do the upgrade on the present mounts?

There is a small history with the SASS contractor. I'll let others fill that one in.

Would have like to have seen an accurate semi that is not restricted to 25 to 50 rounds a day. A contractor with a good rep for delivering on time. I can't help but think that if the 417 had been part of the test and if there was a hefty penalty for late delivery, someone would not have been involved.

My two cents on that one.
__________________
Hold Hard guys

Rick B.

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is knowing it is great on a hamburger but not so great sticking one up your ass.

Author - Richard.

Experience is what you get right after you need it.

Author unknown.
longrange1947 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006, 09:22   #11
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,461
Concur on all counts.

The SCAR may be functional, but FN has not designed an ergonomically friendly weapon since the SAW. Probably all of the French fashion designers working there.

Consensus at the user/operator level is that the maker of the SASS will eventually deliver a product that will be very late, less accurate than the prototypes, less reliable, fragile, finnicky, and extremely expensive to own and maintain. Time will tell.

I agree the 417 would have been worth waiting for. At least one unit has a few now, but as I understand it, they were incredibly expensive.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006, 16:40   #12
uboat509
Quiet Professional
 
uboat509's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSYRGR
For what its worth I sat in on a group Q&A discussion with the USASOC CSM and got the impression that the USASOC preference is for the HK entry.
The USASOC CG and CSM came to my ANCOC class and somebody asked about the SCAR. The CG said that the SCAR was on hold and that they were leaning toward the HK. Unfortunately he has a nasty habbit of talking in circles so I am not sure exactly what the status is.

SFC W
uboat509 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 14:57   #13
M4Guru
Quiet Professional
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 111
Thanks for the info, good to know. I have talked to guys using the 416 currently are pretty happy with it. The less change the better, so the 416 fits the bill in that regard. The learning curve is virtually nonexistant since it's a drop-in replacement for the M4 upper. The 417 looks like a good system as well, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one for a range session.

Last edited by M4Guru; 03-19-2006 at 15:01.
M4Guru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2006, 10:59   #14
Tuukka
Guerrilla
 
Tuukka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 400
There is a reason why Reed Knight has one of the biggest (expensive) private machinegun collections in the world.
__________________
RECON - Always a step ahead
Tuukka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006, 18:58   #15
Basicload
Asset
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: DC area
Posts: 56
I have two 416's assigned to me. I have a 10in and a 14.5 inch. They both run like a dream.

I went to Germany for the HK armorers course reciently and during the 416 class I admitted that it was the first time that I had taken the handguard off of a 416. I had been issued my 10 inch 10 months prior and the gas piston system is under the hand guards.... so I had NEVER cleaned my operating system!

I did not purposefully ignore it, I guess it was just muscle memory from the M-4A1 and NOT removing the RIS/RAS.

So I had fired thousands of rounds (5-10,000) and deployed to sandy places twice in 10 months and the only stoppages that I ever had on my weapon were magazine related.

Reaper, REF the 417: You are correct that current PROTOTYPES that are hand built are STUPID expensive! Each of these weapons is hand made to ensure the capability of redesigning the production line if any major ergonomic issues arise during developmental testing with the selected users.

Once that gun goes into full production, we are thinking that it will be only 20-30% of the cost of the weapon now.

My last MK-11 from Crane cost me $10,000.00 anyway, so what is really expensive?!

Ah Reed Knight and KAC...... we could talk for days, but in the end the conventional boys have no SASS capability currently and despite the XM-110's "issues" I believe that it will eventually work itself out. I hope that soldiers don't have to die to make that happen.

SCAR: I have friends and former co-workers that shot it at the down select for Crane. They said that it was the ONLY game in town (there was no HK submission). I was on the phone daily with them while they were in Cali for the "over the beach BS" and they continued to praise the "gun that was running circles around everything else out here". They could not tell me which gun it was but they said that from the first day that they started shooting that there was a single weapon that stood out above the rest.

I concur with the "manprint" (ergonomics) issues of the SCAR but much like the AK-47.....that bitch will run for days.

Good discussion guys. Thanks for letting me play.
__________________
There is no boat house at Hereford....

Last edited by Basicload; 04-11-2006 at 19:02.
Basicload is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 16:51.



Copyright 2004-2019 by Professional Soldiers
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies