Old 05-22-2012, 19:25   #1
mac21
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Team 1911's

Question for anyone who may have done this:
My team has 1911's in the arms room, that have been there for quite a while from the looks of them. We're leaving for Afghanistan relatively soon and I was wondering if there was any form of full internals work over kit, or a civilian kit that would suffice for the issued 1911's. I'd be willing to pay out of pocket, and have spoken to the armorer and maintenance guys, however neither of those got me very far. We got defunded for 1911 parts a while ago to my understanding, and as such, the maintenance guys have lost track of parts for the guns. Just wondering if this would even be worth it, because I would much prefer a 1911 over an m9, as would other guys on my team. Any help would be much appreciated.
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Old 05-22-2012, 21:47   #2
fasteddie565
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Take them out and shoot them to get an idea of what you need. If you have 50 and only need 12, there is your temporary parts solution. I would imagine as long as you do not buy the frame, all of the other components are considered expendable repair parts and you should be able to buy them from Brownels. Ask your S4 to call Brownels and put a package together for you to deploy with.
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Old 05-22-2012, 22:06   #3
Old Dog New Trick
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Second the above advise.

I would say the only thing they "might" need is new barrel bushing and recoil spring. The best ones shake and rattle a bit. AFAIK the Army hasn't procured a new 1911 since just after WWII although many got put into service out new stock throughout the years until the late 70s.

If they work on the range, they will work down range. Check with local command if they will support ammo and use on deployment, they may say no.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:31   #4
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Third all the above.

Caveat:

Although the mil-issue 1911's are sloppy and not match level accurate, they are hand fitted. The barrel link, barrel lug to slide, barrel bushing, slide to frame, sear, trigger, hammer, grip safety are all fitted.

AND as these have a few rounds thru them, the slide and frame rails will be well worn, maybe to the point where interchangeability is lost.

Net Net,, Get a 1911 armorer to check them out. Look for frame cracks. Then take them to the range and run a couple hundred rounds thru them.

Also, find a couple copies of Jerry Kuhnhausen's books to study and take with you.

"The Colt .45 Automatic: A Shop Manual, Vol 1"
"THE U.S. M1911/M1911A1 PISTOLS A SHOP MANUAL, vol 2"

And get a copy of TM 9-1005-211-34.
PM and I can send you a PDF copy.

Good luck, be safe..
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:38   #5
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[QUOTE=mac21;449815] I'd be willing to pay out of pocket /QUOTE]

Are personally-owned sidearms OK for your team?
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:47   #6
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Also consider the availability of 45 ammo down range. I have been on ODA's deploying over the years with this exact problem set. On atleast two occasions we decided to leave the 1911's to the BN Staff to cart around due to the fact that there was no 45 ammo to be had. We COULD have taken our own with us as we deployed, but pro's did not outweigh the con's in our particular moment in time.

Love it or hate it, the M9 has a reliable and sustainable resupply source of ammunition in OEF where the 45 simply does not.

Don't overlook the training requirements.
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:12   #7
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To second what JJ_BPK offered, I have TM-9-1005-211-12, 12P, and 35 level manuals on PDF if you wind up needing some additional resource materials. Just send a PM if interested. Stay safe!

Edit to add: I would try to get a hold of EM (electronic manual) 0065 if you can. It's on a cd which can be procured from your supply section if they request it from LOGSA. I would advise that to anyone who handles weapons maintenance. It has darn near every weapon manual from the last 60 or so years on it. It is a restricted item, so you must go through your sources. Hope this helps!
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Old 05-23-2012, 22:04   #8
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Our medic had procured a .45 for the deployment, but the big issue is ammo. In our situation, the mission we were doing (Commando) had previously been a joint Marine-Army mission and there was a surplus of .45 ammo available left over from the Marines. However, this will not be the case everywhere. I suspect your issue won't be deploying with 1911's, but will be having a sustainable supply of ammo once you arrive at your site. Ammo resupply (unless it's an emergency bundle) can be hard to get depending on where you're at and .45 is non-standard for the Army. Make friends with the closest Marine unit in your AO and you'll be in business.
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:07   #9
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I'd love to be able to wave a wand and get the M9 replaced with the HK .45.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:19   #10
Stras
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Check out Wilson Combat Tactical for .45 parts and accesories..

take along your M9s as a backup to the backup.. in the event you don't have ammo..
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:33   #11
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Not knowing what your timeline looks like and heeding the advice to have an armor look them over is critical. There are some VERY good armors in the Army, who specialize in action and target guns for various purposes. Contact me B/C and I can put you in contact with them, if interested. You may have to drive them down, but that is just an easy 5-6 hr drive for you.

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Old 05-26-2012, 00:05   #12
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My ODA went through a simmular situation. We had to draft a memo in order to modify our 1911s. Once approved the S-4 had to sign off on the parts purchases since there is no contract in place for replacement parts. Our mods covered mostly after market parts though: bever tails, trijicon sights, ambi safety, grips, bushing rings and full legenth guide rods.

As far as refit, we sent all the pistols to bragg where they went through magnaflux inspection. Of the weapons that came back without codeout paperwork we lost most of our aftermarket parts. if a pistol needed to be fixed it came back to 10-20 standard.

I believe the Army plans to phase these out the same way they did the M79 (by attrition) so you can cannablize for main components such as barrels at home station without running the risk of loosing anything you already put on them.

I would agree with stras on the M9s, bring them as a back up. Guys would still want to maintain proficency with them anyhow if they have a shooting school in their future, or find them selves in a situation needing a larger magazine capacity.
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Old 05-26-2012, 00:33   #13
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[QUOTE=orko;450401]As far as refit, we sent all the pistols to bragg where they went through magnaflux inspection. Of the weapons that came back without codeout paperwork we lost most of our aftermarket parts. if a pistol needed to be fixed it came back to 10-20 standard. QUOTE]

Good Lesson for all. Always strip your "cool guy parts" from any weapon before you send it in for REFIT. Mother Army will always strip your "illegal parts" and replace them with the correct "authorized parts". We always sent one of our 18Bs to ensure that all of our "special" parts were returned and not "confiscated".
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:23   #14
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I have a copy of the Crane Joint Armorer's course on CD and can copy the 1911 portion for you. It is the full instructor presentation with color photos of the detail strip, reassembly, tools, and manual.

Let me know if that will help.
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Old 05-30-2012, 22:49   #15
rocketjok
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All of marsoc has .45s to include there chicks. With the way they are plug and playing msots and oda's I don't see how your B team or sotf won't have any. You could also just contact your nearest marine B team and ask for some. we had boat loads at our vso site last year.
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