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Old 08-05-2016, 05:16   #1
Pete
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ANC suffers major setback

South Africa local elections: ANC suffers major setback

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36985339

"With 92% of the votes counted after Wednesday's municipal elections, the party has lost the key battleground of Nelson Mandela Bay to the opposition Democratic Alliance (DA).

The two parties are in a close fight for Johannesburg and Pretoria.

But the ANC is still in the lead nationally, with 54% of the vote.

The ANC has won more than 60% of the vote at every election since the end of apartheid more than two decades ago. ..."

Don't know the other parties involved so I can't say much - other than the ANC lost a bit of support.
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Old 08-08-2016, 02:12   #2
RomanCandle
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Looking at the results of the Local Government Election the setback suffered by the ANC has been largely overplayed. The DA (Democratic Alliance) which is the official opposition and a descendant of the liberal DP party has been lauded for retaining governance of the Western Cape (66.6% the only metro where they exceeded 50%) and for adding a few notable metros to their CV such as the mentioned Nelson Mandela Bay in the Eastern Cape (the home province of the Xhosa tribe and a staunchly ANC province) which is a symbolic blow to the ANC, and Tshwane (Pretoria - 43%). The areas and metros that the DA gained were mostly won by a very narrow margin and both parties are now looking for coalition partners among the smaller parties in order to gain the outright majority needed.

Johannesburg went to the ANC and was one of the few places one by the ANC where they did not achieve over 50% elsewhere they typically achieved a majority of over 50% losing about 9% of the votes they had in the previous elections dropping 63% to 54%. The DA gained only around 3% votes percentage increase (24% to 27%)

Who benefited from the majority of migrated ANC votes? The EFF. A new party started by previous ANC Youth League President Julias Malema who was instrumental in leading the Youth League to deposing then President Thabo Mbeki and installing the current Jacob Zuma back in 2008. Now having fallen out with Zuma he started a new even more radical party named the Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) whose goal is to nationalize the countries mines, financial institutions and virtually any other industry that they can get their hands on as well as evict white farmers from their farms without compensation and hand the farms over to blacks. No doubt EFF supporting blacks that is. What is notable is that in 2011 the EFF did not even exist and now they have accounted for just over 8% of the total votes.

This does not mean that the black population are turning away from the ANC or that by and large they disapprove of the rampant corruption within the ruling party. It is really a way of trying to teach the ANC a lesson. They feel left out and lied to. However if the ANC can sort out their internal power struggles and start dishing out more free stuff like RDP houses and "free" electricity, land and cushy jobs they can probably retake their lost constituencies easily. Unlikely given the circumstances.

The real beneficiaries of ANC lost votes have been and will be the EFF. Clearly the majority are not interested in good governance considering that the DA has do a reasonably good job of running the Western Cape where they have been in power for several years now. An interesting take on the whys and wherefores can be found in a book by notable traditional Zulu leader and "Sangoma" (Shaman) Credo Mutwa. The book is"Indaba My Children" nd the section quoted is specifically page 655-656.

Quote:

“Many of those interested in events in Africa today are surprised that the new emergent African states do not settle for the perfect democratic form of government with a recognized opposition, but that they all turn into dictatorships.

The truth is that the black man cannot fathom how a country can be governed by two enemies constantly at one another’s throats. Such a country can never be happy and stable.

To a black man all disagreements must end in blows and secession. The black man has not the shallow flexible soul that most races have, and to be ruled by two squabbling parties is as alien and repugnant to his mind, as his way of doing things is repugnant to the European mind.

A black man can give his loyalty only to one set of rulers, who rule in oneness of purpose for better or for worse. Sooner or later they find the dual loyalty encouraged by a two-party system not only clumsy and unwieldy, but fatal as well, because to an African a member of the opposition is not merely the man who holds dissenting political views – he is a deadly enemy who must be killed.

Things like ‘friendly rivalry’ and an ‘agreement to disagree’ have no place in the mind of an African. We either hate or we love; we either agree or we disagree and fight to the death.

The black man has a strong parent, or fetish complex, dating from the days when a community could produce only one brave man at a time, who could challenge a savage beast with a bone-tipped spear.

The whole community then looked upon such a hero for its protection. Even today we still choose that one man or woman who will be our living totem pole, our god on earth, our parent symbol; who is the embodiment of all our aspirations and our unity, and to whom we shall give all our love and loyalty and around whom we shall rally in times of evil. This person will be our nation, the symbol of all our ideals and all our dreams. He or she shall be part of us and we shall be part of him or her.

Therefore in the mind of the African, there can only be one ruler to whom all loyalty and love is given, and not two. One is unity and two are disunity.”

Last edited by RomanCandle; 08-08-2016 at 02:14.
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Old 08-20-2016, 10:35   #3
Patrin
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RomanCandle...

Rhodesia has been a big study of mine for the last 4 years. It used too consume most my leisurely reading.

I've read one book relating to SA, non-military, but from a former South African citizen: Into the Cannibal's Pot.

In that reading, reading what you wrote above, do you or other South Africans wish you could have settled things another way?

I recall a quote I read from a SA general in the 90's, paraphrasing, "We could take the country in a day, but what would we do afterward?"

Jumping back to Rhodesia on a similar sentiment...

Watching interviews of Rhodesian General Peter Walls, I sense regret that, at the time of the 1980 elections, the RDF had plans to wipe out the ZANU / ZAPU that had entered into the country...to the best of their ability that is...assassinate Mugabe, Nkomo, etc....but didn't in the end for fear of world outrage.

Back to SA....would it have been better to have just fought it out, when at least the levers of force were in Afrikaners hands, rather than settle?

Perhaps the outcome of such a decision would have been disastrous, as the Rhodesians very well thought.

However, when I read about the theft, rape, murder...subjugation rather than reconciliation...of anyone or anything European, both in Rhodesia and SA, I admit to thinking that fighting to the death would have been preferable.

I have no doubt that the Marxist forces here in the USA, masquerading as democrats, would be no less devilish to those of us on the opposing side, and will strip our country to it's bones.

Rhodesia and SA are the "canaries in the coalmine" so far as I'm concerned on what the rest of the world would like to see done to the West, and to America.

Replacing Judeo-Christian based Capitalist Civilization with Global Marxism.

(I don't ask this question in any sort of judgement, just what your thoughts are)
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Old 08-26-2016, 10:45   #4
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Patrin, I'll put some thoughts down on this as time and concentration permits and post soonest.
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Old 08-27-2016, 00:23   #5
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Had the whites fought a war against the Communist ANC, PAC and others instead of negotiating a settlement, the rest of the world would not have stood for it. We were already under sanctions from the West. The East were overtly on the side of the ANC and other terrorists. We were on a hiding to nothing.
The only way that the West would realise what evil they were supporting is to see and witness it in action.
This has happened over the last 20 years. When the ANC , probably at the next National election, attempt to hold onto power illegally, the time will have arrived where decent people, black and white can use any means to throw the evil ones out.
It is possible that the West will now allow what they denied us all those years ago when they took the side of terrorists. The West has also now experienced terrorism and are perhaps more sympathetic to our cause.
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Old 08-28-2016, 05:37   #6
BrokenSwitch
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Guymullins, I don't mean to detract from your message, but Israel already saw this movie:

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Originally Posted by Guymullins View Post
Had the Jews fought a war against the terrorist PLO, Hamas and others instead of negotiating a settlement, the rest of the world would not have stood for it. We were already under pressure from the West. The East were overtly on the side of the Arabs and other terrorists. We were on a hiding to nothing.
The only way that the West would realise what evil they were supporting is to see and witness it in action.
This has happened over the last 23* years. When the PLO, probably at the next National election, attempt to hold onto power illegally, the time will have arrived where decent people, Arabs and Jews can use any means to throw the evil ones out.
It is possible that the West will now allow what they denied us all those years ago when they took the side of terrorists. The West has also now experienced terrorism and are perhaps more sympathetic to our cause.
* For the sake of this conversation, I'm only counting from Oslo, when the PLO was "recognized" as a governing body. Really, you could start counting as far back as you'd like, whether it be the Hevron Massacre in 1929, or the PLO being chartered in 1964.

Meanwhile, Mahmoud Abbas is in the 12th year of his 4-year term.

As an Israeli citizen, I do not share your optimism.
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Old 08-28-2016, 09:20   #7
Patrin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenSwitch View Post
As an Israeli citizen, I do not share your optimism.
BrokenSwitch, I think the biggest take away of my studies in Southern Africa...

...particularly after reading 'So Far and No Further', which covers in detail the political and diplomatic wrangling between the Rhodesian PM, British PM Harold Wilson, various other Western powers and the UN...

...is that relying on the 'West' and the UN to acquiesce to peace terms means the destruction of the forces of advanced civilization, Law and Order and Capitalism...and the victory of very dark, malevolent forces.

The track record is clear on that...

Having been to your country many times, that lesson seems to be well known by the Israelis.

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Patrin, I'll put some thoughts down on this as time and concentration permits and post soonest.
Roger that, my friend...take your time.
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Old 08-28-2016, 12:04   #8
Guymullins
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Broken Switch, the parallels between SA and Israel are many and , from our perspective you should never try to reach a settlement with terrorists. Israel at least has friends all over the world who will support any decision the government may make.


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Guymullins, I don't mean to detract from your message, but Israel already saw this movie:



* For the sake of this conversation, I'm only counting from Oslo, when the PLO was "recognized" as a governing body. Really, you could start counting as far back as you'd like, whether it be the Hevron Massacre in 1929, or the PLO being chartered in 1964.

Meanwhile, Mahmoud Abbas is in the 12th year of his 4-year term.

As an Israeli citizen, I do not share your optimism.
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