New badge for the Army

[DanUCSB]

I find this an especially interesting topic because it seems like just about everyone is of one opinion, yet somehow it always goes the opposite way. That is, the Army is continually adding decorations and badges, to the extent that you find one-term non-veterans with more ribbons and badges than a man of days past who jumped into Holland and was stuck in for the duration. Yet, when you bring up the issue, everyone says that we have too many, and that things have gotten out of hand.

How do you reconcile these two facts? From what I've seen, it's mostly a matter of "well, yeah it's bad, but I'm the exception, and I deserve this," with a sideline of "if it makes them feel good, give it to 'em," and a little bit of actual lying/cheating (see the earlier poster's comment about flying into Vietnam once per month to be eligible for combat pay). It's a slippery slope.

From my own perspective, I lean toward the idea of keeping the non-combat qualification badges in the personnel file, and reserving the uniform for actual combat decorations. You do something worthy of decoration? Show it. If you did your job, good on you--your reward is your paycheck.

[QRQ 30]

Quote:
As Army official said, the badge "will be presented only to eligible soldiers who are personally present and under fire while engaged in active ground combat" and whose units "close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires."

The later part of the above quote is what I find interesting.

"Ther I was, sitting in the Baghdad Dairy Queen while my unit was kicking ass. Where my CCB?"

Don't laugh about the DQ. There was one at the SFOB in Nha Trang.

[Airbornelawyer]

Originally Posted by QRQ 30

Quote:
As Army official said, the badge "will be presented only to eligible soldiers who are personally present and under fire while engaged in active ground combat" and whose units "close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires."

The later part of the above quote is what I find interesting.

"Ther I was, sitting in the Baghdad Dairy Queen while my unit was kicking ass. Where my CCB?"

Don't laugh about the DQ. There was one at the SFOB in Nha Trang.

I was summarizing by putting the two quotes together.

The latter quote was meant to categorize the units whose personnel would be eligible, i.e., those whose primary mission is to close with and kill the enemy. The former referred to the personnel within those units. Unless you are assaulting the Dairy Queen to stop the flow of ice cream to the enemy, you wouldn't be personally present and under fire.

It appears that they are trying to write the criteria in such a way as to capture the FA guys conducting patrols that mffjm8509 describes while excluding a unit, such as a maintenance company, that may get caught in a firefight every once in a while but is not tasked with the primary mission of engaging in close combat.

If elements of that maintenance company were retasked for dismounted patrols and saw the requisite amount of ground combat, then the soldiers who performed that mission (but not everyone in the company) could be eligible.

[504PIR]

One thing I have noticed about some of the guys who were the biggest studs with tons of badges and even more experiance. Especially the SF guys I have been around. Most the time they wore pretty sterile uniforms, US Army/nametapes maybe jumpwings or just a tab.

Just an observation.

[QRQ 30]

Well AL. I personally think that even if their mission wasn't to close with the enemy, the soldiers in Jessica Lynche's maintenance company should qualify for the CCB.

What 504PIR says is so true. Back in the sixties most fell out with nothing more than CIB and Jump wings. Those said it all. The exception was when it specified "All awards and decorations" and even then some resisted. I'll never forget a time they made a big fuss over an NCO veteran of WWII and Korea as well as Vietnam. He got pissed and wore every damned award he had and then embarrassed the shit out of the butt heads.

[Airbornelawyer]

Originally Posted by QRQ 30

Well AL. I personally think that even if their mission wasn't to close with the enemy, the soldiers in Jessica Lynche's maintenance company should qualify for the CCB.

What 504PIR says is so true. Back in the sixties most fell out with nothing more than CIB and Jump wings. Those said it all. The exception was when it specified "All awards and decorations" and even then some resisted. I'll never forget a time they made a big fuss over an NCO veteran of WWII and Korea as well as Vietnam. He got pissed and wore every damned award he had and then embarrassed the shit out of the butt heads.

On the former point, I couldn't disagree more.

The CIB, and any non-infantry specific-award the Army is now considering, is not simply an "I just happened to get shot at" award. There are other forms of recognition for that. Frankly, that is what the Shoulder Sleeve Insignia-Former Wartime Service is supposed to be for, but like many awards the criteria have been so watered down that soldiers far from the battlefield are eligible (one requirement is that "[t]he units must have actively participated in, or supported ground combat operations against hostile forces in which they were exposed to the threat of enemy action or fire, either directly or indirectly."). Tightening the combat patch requirements to be closer to those of the Navy and Marine Corps' Combat Action Ribbon ought to be considered.

The CIB's purpose was to raise the morale of people who had a job that day-in and day-out required them to close with and kill the enemy. As 600-8-22 notes, the CIB was "an award which would provide special recognition of the unique role of the Army infantryman, the only soldier whose daily mission is to close with and destroy the enemy and to seize and hold terrain. The badge was intended as an inducement for individuals to join the infantry while serving as a morale booster for infantrymen serving in every theater."

I would not be averse to adopting the approach taken by the Wehrmacht with regard to the Nahkampfspange. While not limited to soldiers with the primary mission of close combat, so it would not exclude CSS soldiers outright, the Nahkampfspange did have a requirement of a minimum number of actual days spent in close combat, and had higher grades for more time in the fight (unlike the CIB/CMB, whose second and third awards represent different conflicts). The requirement was reduced (though not by much) if the soldier was WIA.

The soldier's records documented how many close combat days he had been in, and this was not the same as days in combat or in a combat zone. For retroactive awards (the Nahkampfspange was established on November 25, 1942 and made retroactive to June 22, 1941), credit was given for total amount of time where actual combat days weren't known, but the Germans weren't especially generous. Service in the Balkan and North African theaters counted for less than service on the Russian Front, and eight months of combat service counted for 5 days of close combat (12 months=10 days, 15 months=15 days). 15 days was the minimum for the clasp in bronze.

As for the general comments about badges, I agree that lots of QPs and the like are more modest about their own badges. In IOBC, a 3rd Group buddy of mine wore only CIB and SF tab, and sometimes not even those, until the cadre demanded he appear in "proper uniform" (i.e., with all his hooah badges). As has been noted in other contexts, SF also get fewer medals. But the focus of these things is generally not the soldiers who are already among the most highly motivated.