05-24-2012, 00:38
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#16
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Texas, near Cow Town
Posts: 351
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Tell me if I'm wrong. But is the "thrust" of this thread to discuss ramifications of females, playing an up close and personal role with our "hardest" of our our "hard core" front line fieldsoldiers, namely - SF and Ranger?
If so, either things have dramitically changed, or our current batch of young SF have gone "soft".
Back in the day, the ugliest of the ugly, could completly derailed the best of our "hard Core" best with nothing more than a half-ass smile and being co located in the same grid square.
So how the he'll is it going to work by mixing in some hard core gals with our young troops?
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05-24-2012, 04:52
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#17
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Quiet Professional
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Location: Der Vaterland
Posts: 2,311
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Quote:
“This limitation on plaintiffs’ careers restricts their current and future earnings, their potential for promotion and advancement, and their future retirement benefits,” the women said in the complaint filed by Christopher Sipes of Covington & Burling LLP in Washington.
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There is no difference in retirement benefits. how does your current job limit your earnings. There is no special pay for combat troops as opposed to support troops.
Have they been smoking some of the Hashish that my Afghans are?
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Stras
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05-24-2012, 05:21
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#18
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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There is by rank
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stras
There is no difference in retirement benefits. how does your current job limit your earnings. ...............
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There is by Rank.
But it seems - at least for the female enlisted - you don't have to deploy to a war zone to become a CSM and in charge of the Army DIs.
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Pete is offline
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05-24-2012, 05:39
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#19
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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I think they're referring to the military's "glass ceiling" for promotion potential based upon a preference for combat arms over service/support personnel and their exclusion from certain career fields, limiting that potential and, therefore, their potential retirement $$ as well.
Maybe we let them try for it as long as we:- maintain the higher standards demanded of combat arms personnel
- do away with the gender norming shell game
I wonder whether they've considered their suit might bring about that sort of change to their "We're equal but..." programs.
Personally, I never thought much about retirement until I'd reached the point where I could retire whenever I decided it was time. I just sought challenging and interesting assignments, and to prepare myself for them as best I could; the promotions followed based upon recognized success and potential.
And so it goes...
Richard
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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05-24-2012, 07:04
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#20
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Area Commander
Join Date: May 2007
Location: IL
Posts: 1,644
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Here's my .02 worth. If women want to be employed in combat arms then they need to join the Air Force or the Navy. Each of these services allow women to fly in combat.
Your life is all about choices. If you are a woman, and join the Army/Marines you go in with the full knowledge you will not be on the front lines.
I know flying is not the front line, but it is combat.
Additionally, last time I checked women were GOs. Hell the AF just promoted its first female 4 star. I believe the Army has one as well (Gen Dunwoody I think). So the glass ceiling argument doesn't fly. Additionally there are a shitload of female Chiefs out there in the AF. I can imagine it is the same for the other services.
I think these women chose the wrong service if their goal is to "make it to the top"
It is time for this shit to stop. It is a distraction from all the things we have going on in the military right now.
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afchic is offline
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05-24-2012, 07:13
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#21
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Raeford
Posts: 308
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I say if they want to do it, let them, but do not change the standards. Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't the standards created because these standards were known to provide the best results while in combat or "stressful" situations? If they want to "Ranger up" or attend SFAS, by all means, let them attend. But keep the standards. Any male who fails to meet standards is a No-Go and the standards remain the same. Same for females. Just my .02.
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05-24-2012, 07:20
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#22
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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Life - it's a test and it isn't fair - it just is what it is.
And so it goes...
Richard
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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05-24-2012, 11:42
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#23
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Area Commander
Join Date: May 2007
Location: IL
Posts: 1,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
If a woman wants to get close to combat as a pilot, wouldn't she be more suited to joining the Army or Marines? Both the Army and Marine Corps have pilots (lots of helicopters for the Army and helicopters, fighter planes, C-130s, etc...for the Marines). And Army and Marine pilots get shot at. There was a female Blackhawk pilot who lost her legs and had her arm shattered when an RPG that was fired at her helicopter went into the cockpit and blew. She is currently a Democrat running for Congress: Tammy Duckworth
And here is a video of a female Apache pilot: LINK
And another female Blackhawk pilot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN4PF...eature=related
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I forgot about helo pilots, sorry
Your post proves, more than mine, why this is so stupid. This is a publicity stunt, nothing more, nothing less.
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afchic is offline
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05-24-2012, 12:28
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#24
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Area Commander
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,810
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The article states that they are reservists, not putting down reservists here but unless you are a full time reservist, what kind of a career do you have as a reservist? I tought that reservists took time off from their careers to be reservists.
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05-24-2012, 17:53
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#25
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedsquid
history's deadliest soldier was a russian woman...train them and send
them...just my 2 ct...
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Source?
TR
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The Reaper is offline
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05-24-2012, 18:07
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#26
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Source?
TR
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lyudmila pavelchenko was a soviet sniper officially credited with 309 kills...however anectodal battlefield evidence suggests over 800...research continuing...
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twistedsquid is offline
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05-24-2012, 18:12
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#27
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 933
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If you're talking about Lyudmila Pavlichenko, she did not have the most confirmed kills. Simo Häyhä had more than double her numbers. They sent teams of counter snipers to hunt him down, and they all failed. I think the estimated 800 number is his not Pavlichenko. And he made all his kills in less than 100 days.... If he hadn't gotten wounded in 1940, his numbers could have been incredible.
I'd rather have Vasily Zaytsev - even though he didn't have Pavlichenko's confirmed numbers (245) - he ran the sniper school and his student's numbers topped well over 3000 kills.
Last edited by koz; 05-24-2012 at 18:19.
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05-24-2012, 18:18
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#28
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koz
If you're talking about Lyudmila Pavlichenko, she did not have the most confirmed kills. Simo Häyhä had more than double her numbers.
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thanks...i left out "female" in my earlier post...thank you for the correction...
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twistedsquid is offline
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05-24-2012, 19:27
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#29
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koz
If you're talking about Lyudmila Pavlichenko, she did not have the most confirmed kills.
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The point is not that women cannot kill...they can, they kill all of the time, ex husbands, their own children etc.....
The point is how the killing takes place.
Any sniper can kill, that is a 'skill' set not a strength set.
Now, lets put women in the trenches of WW1, hand to hand, butt stroking, stabing or simply smashing heads. Or assaulting the beaches of Normandy, Iwo Jima....where simple brute strength is required.
I know, deep in my heart, that I can kill 99% of all women with my bare hands. That 1% are the unusual athletes that exist, and that would still be a fight.
If you are a grunt, 11B, Infantryman then you must train for and expect the worse case scenario.
Our politicians are looking at very low levels of physical exertion killing/combat for females...where they 'rode' to combat and were not humping the boonies. Or were in defensive built up positions and aquitted themselves with honor because they fought well, were brave, 'manned up' and they have.
However, these same brave female soldiers are not the physical equivalent of the average male...not aerobically or anerobically.
I do not pull a plow with a race horse nor do I run a plough horse in a 1/4 mile race.
Genetic ability is tantamount in an E-tool fight after you've humped your ruck/combat load all day with 3 hours of sleep.
This gender norming crap is inane.
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05-24-2012, 22:00
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#30
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Guerrilla
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 110
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Their Rank
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stras
There is no difference in retirement benefits. how does your current job limit your earnings. There is no special pay for combat troops as opposed to support troops.
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From another article on this topic: "Command Sergeant Major Jane Baldwin and Colonel Ellen Haring, both Army reservists"
I suppose the Colonel may feel slighted if she doesn't pin on a star but it's hard to discern how being a woman affected the CSM's career. She has reached the highest enlisted rank.
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