Oldest SF candidate

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by FrankS

I should change my username to ping pong it sounds pretty cool. I just found what will work for me (21st Military Police Company (Airborne)) Fort Bragg. 9 days and counting to meps, have to gain 1/2 inch in my neck and lose 1" on my waist any suggestions would be welcomed. Looks like it is the Army for me I doubt seriously a contract will come through in the next 9 days. Thanks again guys for your suggestions. I was looking at the pass ratio according to the pft scores, I think being an MP for a year or so I can get into top physical condition to make sure I succeed, if I did it now I would just be sucking wind I don't want to waste the Army or the instructors time.

Ping Pong out..

Ping Pong is not a complimentary nickname. You made your bed - now sleep well. In the interim while you're learning focus and discipline you'd better spend your time gaining proficiency on convoy ops and IA drills with various crew-served weapons. Oh - don't forget motor stables on up-armored Hummers. Combat skills for the sandbox, you're going to need them. And the guys you will be there with deserve your undivided attention/loyalty. You just put your SF daydreams on hold for years. Peregrino

[FrankS]

Ping Pong is not a complimentary nickname. You made your bed - now sleep well. In the interim while you're learning focus and discipline you'd better spend your time gaining proficiency on convoy ops and IA drills with various crew-served weapons. Oh - don't forget motor stables on up-armored Hummers. Combat skills for the sandbox, you're going to need them. And the guys you will be there with deserve your undivided attention/loyalty. You just put your SF daydreams on hold for years. Peregrino

Thanks Peregrino, thats fine I have a lot to learn trust me I realize that. Once I have the basics down then I can move on, thats why I would feel a bit more comfortable being in the Army a while before I attempt SF . I dont know man Ping Pong aint bad I am sure you know earning your nickname reflects the person, nothing wrong with being a bit off or out of the norm.

you're going to need them. And the guys you will be there with deserve your undivided attention/loyalty.

I know you don't know me but this will not be an issue, I am not a POS that throws grenades into a tent unless the tents belong to insurgents.

You just put your SF daydreams on hold for years.

This is what I would prefer to do, thanks for re-enforcing that. Take care

Ping Pong

[The Reaper]

I have to agree with Peregrino.

If you are having trouble getting in shape just to join, then SF is a pipedream for you.

Don't count on getting in shape as an MP. You will get some combat time though.

TR

[FrankS]

If you are having trouble getting in shape just to join,

I am in shape to join at 200 pft for my age group , I am 2% over on the bf at 26% and 215 lbs for 72".
Why is it a pipe dream? I am not counting on anyone to get me into shape except me. Why would I not get into shape as an MP are they resatricted from PT? I am asking because I don't know, not to doubt what you are saying. I have been a donut eating beer drinking machine, I went from 1/4 mile and passing out to 5+ miles and 7:26 minute miles in 3 months in addition to situps and pushups. I know I can do this it's just everything in between I am unsure of.

Thanks..

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by FrankS

I am in shape to join at 200 pft for my age group , I am 2% over on the bf at 26% and 215 lbs for 72".
Why is it a pipe dream? I am not counting on anyone to get me into shape except me. Why would I not get into shape as an MP are they resatricted from PT? I am asking because I don't know, not to doubt what you are saying. I have been a donut eating beer drinking machine, I went from 1/4 mile and passing out to 5+ miles and 7:26 minute miles in 3 months in addition to situps and pushups. I know I can do this it's just everything in between I am unsure of.

Thanks..

Because I saw every SFAS class for the past four years.

I do not know you, but I have seen a hundred like you.

People who are not really sure that they want it, but who show up thinking that they are in good shape for their age group. People too lazy to do the research, much less the prep required. People who sign any contract offered, thinking that the Army will give them what they need to get ready for SF. Consider this, available in USAREC Pam 601-25 and elsewhere on this very site. Note that there is no measurement for a 200 APFT score, even in the 17-21 y/o group, which will be your standard. You will need a lot more than 200 to stay for the rest of the course:

"The Army Research Institute (ARI) has been able to closely correlate performance on the APFT and a 4-mile rucksack march with success in the SFAS Course. ARI evaluated the cumulative APFT score (17 to 21 age group standard) with the percent of candidates who started the SFAS Course and who passed the course. The average PT score for the SFAS Course graduates is 250. The average APFT results are depicted below.

APFT Score Percent Passing Course
206-225 31
226-250 42
251-275 57
276 or higher 78

The higher the APFT score, the better the percent that passed the course. You need to be in top physical condition and you should do well in the SFAS Course.

ARI evaluated the ability of SFAS students to perform a 4-mile ruckmarch in BDU, boots, M-16, load bearing equipment, and a 45-pound rucksack. The overall average 4-mile ruckmarch time for graduates is 61 minutes. The average results are depicted below:

Ruckmarch Time (Minutes) Percent Passing Course
54 and less 81
55-64 63
65-74 34
75-84 10

The less time to complete a 4-mile ruckmarch, the better the percent who passed the course. The soldiers who prepare for SFAS through PT should succeed at the SFAS Course."

Here is a reality check, based on my experience after doing this SF job for 21 years. Take it for what you will.

MPs are busy people, not a lot of time for PT, unless you make the time on your off-duty time. People who are deployed don't have a lot of time for PT, they are busy trying to stay alive.

You are already at the upper end of the age range. You will not bounce back the next day like the kids will. You may have injuries already that will be aggrevated. You will be injured more easily, and recover more slowly.

You do not strike me as really knowing that SF is what you want, your burning desire, your raison d'etre, and that is what is really going to keep you from making it.

Frankly, you are pretty old, not in good shape, and not likely to get to SFAS with the desire to make it. You are looking for reassurance now on this site. No one from here will be out on the STAR helping you walk mile after mile but you. No one will be pushing you on the run to move out faster but you. No one can keep your feet moving when you are burned out but you. The instructors will not try. They are there to assess and select, not motivate. And you really want to be a CID agent, remember?

I went to Camp Mackall 21 years ago at age 26 with a PT score of 300 and four years as a Light Infantryman and it still kicked my ass. That was before SFAS, which IMHO, is much harder than it was in my day.

I am sure that you are a great person with good intentions. Unfortunately, I do not think that you have what we are looking for, and would be better off staying home. If you really want to try it, go for it. Just don't expect any artificial optimism and support from me. You wanted a qualified opinion, I just gave you mine, honestly, and upfront.

Good luck.

TR

[haztacmedic]

Since I started this whole thing, I will try to refocus on my original purpose for this thread. Ive given myself six months to get in shape and begin to sort out all the details on moving units. I still work 24hours on and 48 off. During my off days I run, ruck, and do practice APFTs.
Reaper: Your oppinion please. I have worked it out with the State's NCO school to go out and do land naviagtion tests with the PLDC students at any time I want. Will this be helpful?

I am entering a local 5k race just to see how I do. I have bought a copy of the Ranger hand book to start getting familiar with SUT and TLP.

If I get to SFAS I know with absoulte clarity that I want to be no less that a 18-D
and nothing else will be acceptable.
somedic

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by FrankS

I know you don't know me but this will not be an issue. Ping Pong

You missed the point. The point is people who go to a unit planning on using it as a stepping stone to further their own ambitions lack the loyalty and focus required to be a team player. Nobody likes or trusts individuals, especially when the bullets are flying. They tend to get other people killed or wounded for selfish reasons. If you have decided to be an MP - be the best MP possible. In a few years after a 100% commitment to whatever job you have, if you still want to move on to something else, that's a different story. In the meantime consider this - ask around (QUIETLY - try PMs) and get a feel for how other QPs/leaders felt about (and treated) users who showed up to "check the block" on their way to achieving "self actualization". This "Army of One" crap chaps my "cornflakes". End Lecture - I hope you payed atention, it'll save you (and more importantly the people who will be depending on you) a lot of grief. Peregrino

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by FrankS

I am in shape to join at 200 pft for my age group , I am 2% over on the bf at 26% and 215 lbs for 72".
Why is it a pipe dream? I am not counting on anyone to get me into shape except me. Why would I not get into shape as an MP are they resatricted from PT? I am asking because I don't know, not to doubt what you are saying. I have been a donut eating beer drinking machine, I went from 1/4 mile and passing out to 5+ miles and 7:26 minute miles in 3 months in addition to situps and pushups. I know I can do this it's just everything in between I am unsure of.

Thanks..

A word of advice from a retired Special Forces Master Sergeant:

If you cannot easily do a 300, on the 17-21 scale, on the Army PT test than Army Special Forces is not for you. ( I don't care what age you are...)

Bottom line, if you are contemplating Special Forces as a career and are having problems getting your ass off the couch to keep in great shape, don’t waste your time (or ours).

Special Forces is not for those that “think they can”. While that may be a great attitude for 4-6 year old kindergarten kids, it will not work in our world. If you are "unsure" at the age of 37 Special Forces is not for you.

A Special Forces soldier “knows he can” and will die rather than quit in order to accomplish his mission.

Team Sergeant

[FrankS]

Thats what I was looking for the non bullshit sugar coated answers, Thank you. Next friday I am on my way to meps will try to get MP with Airborne I see there is a 21 MP battalion in Bragg. I just got through with 3 miles in 23:54 working on it. Thanks again for kicking me in the head and giving me a reality check. I will be better informed after I get in. screw it maybe it's a midlife crisis and I will just go out and buy me a miata LOLOL

Later,,, Frank

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by somedic

Since I started this whole thing, I will try to refocus on my original purpose for this thread. Ive given myself six months to get in shape and begin to sort out all the details on moving units. I still work 24hours on and 48 off. During my off days I run, ruck, and do practice APFTs.
Reaper: Your oppinion please. I have worked it out with the State's NCO school to go out and do land naviagtion tests with the PLDC students at any time I want. Will this be helpful?

I am entering a local 5k race just to see how I do. I have bought a copy of the Ranger hand book to start getting familiar with SUT and TLP.

If I get to SFAS I know with absoulte clarity that I want to be no less that a 18-D
and nothing else will be acceptable.
somedic

You need to be honest with yourself in assessing your capabilities and limitations. If you fail at SFAS, the rest of the SFQC does not matter.

We will teach you land nav, all you have to do is be comfortable in the woods. If you can get some experience ahead of time, that is fine, but don't neglect your PT and rucking for it. I suspect that you will find very short legs being run at PLDC, which is only an intro to land nav.

The Ranger Handbook is helpful, but again, only if you make it through SFAS. Do not get ahead of yourself or lose focus on the 25 meter target. Lots of posters on this board have worried about advanced issues, and never made it through SFAS.

BTW, you don't pick your MOS, the Army does. Assuming that you made it through SFAS and were selected, which is a pretty big assumption, if they gave you 18B, would you quit?

TR

[Razor]

In addition to the Team Sergeant's comments on APFT performance, a 300 overall on the 17-21 scale is an important indicator, but if you're really pushing yourself to see what you can do, try to max push-ups and sit-ups in the 27-31 age scale, and max the run in the 17-21 age scale. Challenge yourself, always.

[haztacmedic]

Reaper: Thanks for the reply. You are correct on the PLDC land nav course. I think the longest leg is between 500-800 meters. I read the ranger hand book mostly for familiarization and because its interesting to me. I will not let PLDC land nav get in the way of rucking and PT.

With my back ground as a medic, I would really hope to be a 18-D. If thats not an option I would take any MOS assignment with honor.

Razor: Thanks for your input. I challenge myself daily and I have been pushing beyond what I thought my limits are....To be honest Im enjoying this whole thing.

[aricbcool]

Originally Posted by Razor

In addition to the Team Sergeant's comments on APFT performance, a 300 overall on the 17-21 scale is an important indicator, but if you're really pushing yourself to see what you can do, try to max push-ups and sit-ups in the 27-31 age scale, and max the run in the 17-21 age scale. Challenge yourself, always.

I was looking at the scores yesterday and noticed the difference in pushups/situps too.

The scores Razor suggests above work out to:

Pushups: 77
Situps: 82
Run Time: 13:00 minutes

Also, I found a couple of PFT calculators on the net.

See here:
http://www.hooah4health.com/4You/apft.htm

http://www.apft.net/APFTscorealculator.html

Hope that helps.
--Aric

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by aricbcool

I was looking at the scores yesterday and noticed the difference in pushups/situps too.

The scores Razor suggests above work out to:

Pushups: 77
Situps: 82
Run Time: 13:00 minutes

Also, I found a couple of PFT calculators on the net.

See here:
http://www.hooah4health.com/4You/apft.htm

http://www.apft.net/APFTscorealculator.html

Hope that helps.
--Aric

A lot of people perform reps that are not counted.

60 good ones are better than 100 with half not counted.

TR

[aricbcool]

Good advice, Sir.

I will keep it in mind.

--Aric