New horsepower for war zones: Special Forces saddle up

[Beef]

Originally Posted by MR2

and mules can be a tad bit smarter then the traditional generator carrier too.

Yep, tap your left hoof twice for A, right hoof three times for B... If we could just get them to break 30 groups/minute!

[mark46th]

Be careful, the Calif DFW frowns on the use of DuPont lures...

[JJ_BPK]

I'm curious as to how the USMC became the go to horse trainers? Does anyone have the back-side story?

I don't remember ever hearing MARSOC attacking the beach mounted?

I would have thought the 1st Cav would be more appropriate.

[Beef]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

I'm curious as to how the USMC became to go to horse trainers? Does anyone have the back-side story?

I don't remember ever hearing MARSOC attacking the beach mounted?

I would have thought the 1st Cav would be more appropriate.

JJ, I have no idea how that happened either. I've never been to Bridgeport, but have known lots of guys who have. It's officially the "Mountain Warfare Training Center" and they like to claim they do all things mountain related. And I do know that the 1920s Marine Corps "Small Wars Manual," the U.S. military's first COIN manual, has a chapter dealing with pack animals.

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by Beef

And I do know that the 1920s Marine Corps "Small Wars Manual," the U.S. military's first COIN manual, has a chapter dealing with pack animals.

They probably borrowed from Pershing's AAR, circa 1911..

I'm told Black Jack did some UW harts-n-minds with some guy named Villa, down in the Ciudad Juárez - El Paso area?? I also heard Black Jack was not considered good at UW but did well on a horse..

Gary Owens..

[Golf1echo]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

I'm curious as to how the USMC became the go to horse trainers? Does anyone have the back-side story?

I don't remember ever hearing MARSOC attacking the beach mounted?

I would have thought the 1st Cav would be more appropriate.

Having been a fly on the wall, it was interesting to me how the various mountain schools both compete and cooperate. The NWTC has an Army version:
http://vimeo.com/27587139

Others here could better explain the slots, classifications, and doctrine behind the programs. MWTC facility has a good reputation for training and working with the private sector in development, as do the other schools, it's location in the lower 48 has to be a plus.
Now if they could just combine it with " Inland Waterways".

[Beef]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

They probably borrowed from Pershing's AAR, circa 1911..

I'm told Black Jack did some UW harts-n-minds with some guy named Villa, down in the Ciudad Juárez - El Paso area?? I also heard Black Jack was not considered good at UW but did well on a horse..

Gary Owens..

Blackjack did well enough with the Moros, if what I've read is correct. Not so well with Pancho, but we're still trying to secure the borders exactly 100 years later.

The "Small Wars Manual" was an accumulation of the lessons learned and experiences gained by the Jarheads in their very successful COIN ops in Haiti and Nicaragua. Of course both of those fell apart 70-80 years later, as many on here can attest first hand.

BTW, you can google "Small Wars Manual" and download it free in PDF. It has chapters on various pack animals.

[Debo]

You can't ride em but when the terrain gets really crazy, get some goats.

When we were at the UW training at Camp Williams a couple of years ago we got a pack animal class from a local outfit there in Wyoming. Only catch is, the animals were goats, not horses or mules. A goat is a fantastic tactical animal we found out. 1 handful of food per day as they graze as they walk. They can carry 1/4 of their body weight to places you can't even imagine (and these were 200# goats so they could carry 50#ish each). When they get scared or nervous they don't run off, they get closer to you and more quiet. You don't have to lead them, they just hang out with you while you walk so you can keep your hands on your weapon. They are quiet and when you stop, they lay down and wait. Plus, your friendly neighborhood 18D has some experience treating them.

It was a cool class and we briefed that we were contracting with this local guy for our infil. He was retired Utah Air National Guard and already had a security clearance. Plan was for us to airborne infil and nav to a link up point where he would meet us with the animals and then we would split our rucks and infil up the mountain to the G-base returning the animals the following day. We worked the plan into our budget and then were going to kick in around $20 per ODA member to make the ends meet. Would have been a great learning experience in the implementation but the plan got shot down by higher and we walked up the mountain. Guess we were being too unconventional.

Photo is from the class. We didn't have all the goats loaded up, just had some with the yokes and the rest walking with us.



D.

[mark46th]

I'm sure goats would be popular in A-stan. If you get hungry, you can eat them, if you get horny, you can have sex with them...

[mojaveman]

Originally Posted by mark46th

I'm sure goats would be popular in A-stan. If you get hungry, you can eat them, if you get horny, you can have sex with them...

But in Afghanistan you have to consider the morale of your indigenous forces also.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Beef]

Originally Posted by mark46th

I'm sure goats would be popular in A-stan. If you get hungry, you can eat them, if you get horny, you can have sex with them...

Ah, the holistic approach.....

[TOMAHAWK9521]

Originally Posted by Debo

You can't ride em but when the terrain gets really crazy, get some goats.

When we were at the UW training at Camp Williams a couple of years ago we got a pack animal class from a local outfit there in Wyoming. Only catch is, the animals were goats, not horses or mules. A goat is a fantastic tactical animal we found out. 1 handful of food per day as they graze as they walk. They can carry 1/4 of their body weight to places you can't even imagine (and these were 200# goats so they could carry 50#ish each). When they get scared or nervous they don't run off, they get closer to you and more quiet. You don't have to lead them, they just hang out with you while you walk so you can keep your hands on your weapon. They are quiet and when you stop, they lay down and wait. Plus, your friendly neighborhood 18D has some experience treating them.

It was a cool class and we briefed that we were contracting with this local guy for our infil. He was retired Utah Air National Guard and already had a security clearance. Plan was for us to airborne infil and nav to a link up point where he would meet us with the animals and then we would split our rucks and infil up the mountain to the G-base returning the animals the following day. We worked the plan into our budget and then were going to kick in around $20 per ODA member to make the ends meet. Would have been a great learning experience in the implementation but the plan got shot down by higher and we walked up the mountain. Guess we were being too unconventional.

Photo is from the class. We didn't have all the goats loaded up, just had some with the yokes and the rest walking with us.



D.

Your plan sounds almost exactly like the one my boss and I put together, except we were going to use mules. However, our plan was to maintain the livestock the entire time in the field so as to move the camp every few days as we moved throughout the area. The camp sites were to be conveniently located near gold medal brook and cutthroat trout spots. Still breaks my heart that we never got the green light for it.