Staying awake

[Solid]

It is highly dependent on the person and the age. Teenagers and babies need more sleep than average. Theories suggest that there are two kinds of sleep- physical recovery and mental recovery. They differ in their 'base levels' or the 'lowest' wave sets they reach during sleep. Physically restorative sleep often requires less time than psychologically restorative sleep. It is possible that you require little psychologically restorative sleep, and that, as you say, your sleep cycles are devoted primarily to physical restoration.

It's all theoretical, of course.

Solid

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by The Reaper
I am inferring that you are calling me a girlie-man because I drink diet soda.

Maybe you should ask one of the gents here with the green felt hats who know me if I strike them as effeminate?

Or just step up to the plate, and come see for yourself.

No, you're no girlie-man. But I assume you drink the stuff because you are watching your figure. I can't stand the taste, personally. If I could, I'd drink it too.

I'll come out for my whoopin as soon as I am able.

[Guy]

Power-naps!

It's not the quantity of sleep. It's the QUALITY!

[Solid]

Guy- that's exactly right. Marathon runners often sleep only 6 hours after running the marathon, which is little given the physical exertion. However, their brain waves reflect the fact that almost instantly they drop down into physically repairing sleep waves, making the little sleep they get count for more.

Solid

[DanUCSB]

Interesting thread. Here's something I've always been curious about. I've heard a lot of people mentioning the desire to get 'good' sleep (read: sleeping solidly through the whole night/sleep period). But for as long as I can remember, I've always gotten more restful sleep if I could wake up a couple times during the night, even to the point of actually preferring having a guard shift rather than not.

The only reason I can think of for this is having the sense of 'really' getting sleep, rather than being cheated out of it by sleeping straight through. Sounds kind of odd, I know. Anyone else experience this?

[Desert Fox]

Under the Roman Empire a sleeping sentry was sentenced to death.

[Solid]

Dan:
This is just a guess, but there are two possible explanations for your approach to 'good sleep'. The first is that you have conditioned yourself to appreciate interrupted sleep, perhaps during your time in the military where you were expected (and rewarded through lack of punishment) for interrupting your natural sleep cycles. However, this would likely be true of your fellow soldiers as well if this were the explanation.

Sleep moves in cycles as your mind shifts between wave lengths. Each shift has different effects on the body and the mind, although there are no solid hypotheses on why exactly these shifts occur. Normally, the shifts occur from 'light sleep' down to 'deep sleep', or REM sleep. The brain waves will shift up and down several times a night. It is possible that your brain prefers to shift up and down several times a night. By interrupting the cycle, with guard duty, it stops the 'ascending' period and, when you return to sleep, resumes descent and therefore elongates REM/ NREM paralysis/deep sleep.

Just a guess, I'm only a student. I read about a similar case, however. My bet is that it's behavioral and biological.

Solid

[2VP]

The CF is trialing caffine gum. I don't have any numbers but if I remember correctly it looked like the gum definately helped.

[Solid]

Caffeine is only useful for a burst, like any drug. They should simply train all soldiers to cope at night through long night time ops and long periods without sleep. The Drone Zone, which is actually a psych term by now, can be broken or minimized.

Solid

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Solid
Caffeine is only useful for a burst, like any drug. They should simply train all soldiers to cope at night through long night time ops and long periods without sleep. The Drone Zone, which is actually a psych term by now, can be broken or minimized.

Solid

Based on your vast operational experience?

TR

[Solid]

I knew I should've added the study, but I wanted to get the names right. Tests were performed by both the Swiss Army and an independent psychologist on a) soldiers and b) shift workers to determine the effects of night shift work and how to elongate attention spans etc. The result was to alter the current shift routine (which was daynight alternating every week) to night for several weeks and then day and so forth. The Swiss study concluded that to expand attention during typical 'down' periods (ie: night), the best measure to take was to train the soldiers at night over long periods, thereby forcing them to cope mentally when tired. This technique has only been implemented, I believe, on officers.

I of course have no experience whatsoever with true field work.

Sorry,

Solid

EDIT- one of the control groups was maintained on artificial stimulants like caffiene, and eventually suffered from loss of fine motor skills, slowed response times, and decreases in immune efficiency akin to the exhaustion period of the general stress response.

[magician]

the only "natural" solution for sleep management that I have found is hard, long, aerobic PT.

nothing is better than hitting the exercise bike, the treadmill, or the elliptical machine for a solid hour. Back when I was in PT Monster mode, I was able to freestyle swim for a solid hour. I accomplished this by using a mask and snorkle, hand paddles, and fins. I would get in the pool, warm up for ten laps, then hit my timer, and go for a solid hour. Then I would warm down with a final ten laps.

after doing this, I had to eat something, like a can of tuna, immediately. Then I was able to go home, kick back, and sure enough, that night, I would sleep long, deep and hard, and wake the next day feeling like a million bucks.

it took me about six months of hard PT'ing to get to that point. It took about two months of relative inactivity to lose it.

now, I am searching for a pool long enough here in Thailand to do it again. If anyone knows where one is, I will move there and live there.

my feeling was, "take care of the body, the mind will follow."

living a very clean lifestyle, avoiding alcohol, tobacco (doh!), caffeine, and red meat all really, really helped. Getting outside for at least an hour a day was a big help, as well. I used to go hiking with my doggie. Those days when we went for monster hikes....like all the way around Lum's Pond (14 miles), were the best. She loved it. We always stopped at the doggie store where she got to go in and select a bone. She carried it to the register, I paid for it, then she carried it out to the car. When we got home, she would head straight for her rug, munch the shit out of that thing, drink a ton of water, take a long piss, then walk upstairs to the bedroom. She would pause at the bottom of the stairs and just look at me, saying telepathically, "aren't you coming?" Of course I was.

best days of my life.

[swatsurgeon]

just do a surgical residency, a trauma fellowship and you'll wonder how and why anyone sleeps....it's down time that is too precious to waste....
like anything else it's the training to do it. Not one of you went out first day of a 5 mile run and did 20...you work up to it. The body and minds efficiency is increased to work at near max if you train it...it is not rocket science, but physiology. Because most of us now only do it sporatically rather than as the rule, we get tired after 40-48 hours of being awake, alert, on top of our game, we fell the need to 'shut down'.
To answer the original question, train up to it and it becomes the normal functioning level....you guys knew that , you just wanted all of the medical people to chime in and burn energy.

[danjam]

A strong "mud" coffee always helped me.

The hardest times when doing all nighters was/is the cold, I tend to want to wrap up and that induces z's. However! When on duty, paranoia, keeps my eyes open. I get teased because I never let my guard down, you know, keep weapon in ready position, or easy reach, never shut my eyes even when the rest of the patrol has gone into lala land, and if there are others up, talk to them, or make the coffee. When you need to be quiet, it's just up to will power and training I reckon, oh, and paranoia.

In my reckless days when "friends" were taking speed and extacy for partying all night I took something called "guruana" (a herb) This worked wonders and no side effects except from staying wide awake.

[swatsurgeon]

be careful of caffeine related/containing products....the 'rebound' effect is exaggerated the longer you attempt to function at a higher level after the caffeine wears off. i.e., you get more tired. Basic 1/2 life of caffeine is 3-5 hours....it's still effective but proportionally less as time goes on and the next time it is used to achieve the same effect it takes more (based on the bodies metabolism and being geared up to metabolize it) of the substance to achieve the same effect.
Also the tremor effect is worse the higher level activity you are performing....gross motor skills are well preserved, fine motor skills are shaky..
The physiology is that once the stimulation occurs between nerve and muscle there is a release of the neurotransmitter and instead if it being broken down (as it usually is) that effect is blocked so the stimulation continues......sounds like a viagra story but it is basically the same