Air Force Green Berets - Page 2

skeeter8654 · 09-08-2006, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82ndtrooper

I guess next, the Marines of MARSOC Det 1 will want thier "LONG TAB" on their left sleeve just as they whined about not having a Trident when they supposedly were going to become SEAL team 10 (Never happened)

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

82ndtrooper · 09-08-2006, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeeter8654

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Please enlighten us then Skeeter ! IIRC, 4 or so years ago the now MARSOC Det 1 Marines were going to be simply joined at the hip with the SEAL teams, thus creating a SEAL Team 10, 11, 12 whatever ! The rumor at that time was that the men wanted Tridents, but without having to attend BUD/S...............sorry, aint gonna happen, and didn't, as we know see.

I remember hearing this from a SEAL Team member, not an article, so it may well have been rumor or simply BS. He was on the East Coast Teams, so he may have had bad information, or it may have had some truth to it.

D9 (RIP) · 09-08-2006, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82ndtrooper

Please enlighten us then Skeeter ! IIRC, 4 or so years ago the now MARSOC Det 1 Marines were going to be simply joined at the hip with the SEAL teams, thus creating a SEAL Team 10, 11, 12 whatever ! The rumor at that time was that the men wanted Tridents, but without having to attend BUD/S...............sorry, aint gonna happen, and didn't, as we know see.

I remember hearing this from a SEAL Team member, not an article, so it may well have been rumor or simply BS. He was on the East Coast Teams, so he may have had bad information, or it may have had some truth to it.

Is your profile correct? If so, do you REALLY think you rate to spread this kind of boot-camp scuttlebutt about a group of people have spent blood and sweat in the likes of Fallujah and Ramadi while you're at home behind your desk?

I wouldn't think so, but what do I know.

Just a few questions that came to me while reading your rant.

Basenshukai · 09-08-2006, 21:16

It's most likely not my place to say this, but this argument/disagreement ends right now!!! This is not the place for inter-service BS. It is done.

BAS

(Please, continue with the original thread.)

skeeter8654 · 09-08-2006, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82ndtrooper

Please enlighten us then Skeeter !

There is no need to enlighten anyone besides you. And I don't feel the need to do that.

skeeter8654 · 09-08-2006, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basenshukai

It's most likely not my place to say this, but this argument/disagreement ends right now!!! This is not the place for inter-service BS. It is done.

BAS

(Please, continue with the original thread.)

No interservice rivalry here. We (the Marines in MARSOC) have plenty of learning from our SOF brothers to do (and in many areas, catching up to do )who have been doing the deed and blazing the trail long before we stepped into the SOF arena. As a member of that command (MARSOC), one who works in the old DET 1 compound, with quite a few co-workers who were part of that proof of concept (DET 1) I would be remiss not to call out someone making statements as ridiculous as that they were wannabee SEAL's that were upset that they didn't recieve tridents, or that they will now want the long tab.

EDITED FOR SPELLING AND PUNCTUATION

**Ambush Master** · 09-08-2006, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basenshukai

It's most likely not my place to say this, but this argument/disagreement ends right now!!! This is not the place for inter-service BS. It is done.

BAS

(Please, continue with the original thread.)

Good call sir!!

Any further altercations here WILL result in Thread Closure!!

deanwells · 09-09-2006, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basenshukai

It's most likely not my place to say this, but this argument/disagreement ends right now!!! This is not the place for inter-service BS. It is done.

BAS

(Please, continue with the original thread.)

Roger that.

DOL

**Team Sergeant** · 09-09-2006, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82ndtrooper

Please enlighten us then Skeeter ! IIRC, 4 or so years ago the now MARSOC Det 1 Marines were going to be simply joined at the hip with the SEAL teams, thus creating a SEAL Team 10, 11, 12 whatever ! The rumor at that time was that the men wanted Tridents, but without having to attend BUD/S...............sorry, aint gonna happen, and didn't, as we know see.

I remember hearing this from a SEAL Team member, not an article, so it may well have been rumor or simply BS. He was on the East Coast Teams, so he may have had bad information, or it may have had some truth to it.

82ndtrooper,

You have never been in a Special Operations unit. Your insight into our community does not hold water. Save your hearsay for the other military boards. Consider this your only warning. (We do not believe in three strikes.)

Team Sergeant

82ndtrooper · 09-09-2006, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

82ndtrooper,

You have never been in a Special Operations unit. Your insight into our community does not hold water. Save your hearsay for the other military boards. Consider this your only warning. (We do not believe in three strikes.)

Team Sergeant

Roger that TS................steering back into my lane.

NousDefionsDoc · 09-09-2006, 13:35

Well hell, there's a second page.

jjw · 09-10-2006, 05:58

Too much information for the OPSEC gods.

GunPig · 10-06-2006, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

That's OK.

The only "combatants" in the Air Force are the officers and none of them are sporting Green Berets.

TS

TS

Being and AF guy, the fact the SERE guys have a beret ...of any color...means absolutley nothing to me. The fact they are willing to train people in SERE disciplines means absolutley everything to me. I attended many courses intsructed by AF SERE Instructors and we had a several SERE NCOs on staff for many years. They are proficient in their task for the most part and provid much needed training. Its a necessary task just like about anything else...and if all it takes a ten bucks worth of headgear to make 'em happy, then I guess it's money well spent (I'm sure that's not the case however).

I disagree with your postion on AF combatants though: In the fighter world you are correct, but most of the combatant fliers in AFSOC are enlisted...not officers. Of those, there are Gunners, Flight Engineers, Loadmasters, and Radio Operators. Most ST (CCT-PJ-CW) are also considered combatants. Not that it matters anyhow what terms are used to define the "harvesters of sand poodles", but the job needs to be done neverthless.

I'll bet you were just stating that "tounge in cheek" anyhow to see if you could tweak any AF lurkers on this site weren't you? That TS is sure one sly Dog!

BTW: I see the SERE beret on some of our NCOs just about every day at work...it is the most uggglleee shade of pea green you have ever seen. There is no mistaking it, that's for sure.

V/R
Gunpig

JLF · 10-07-2006, 04:49

Wow,

I actually considered long and hard about whether or not I'd respond to this thread and here goes:

The award of the "pewter sage" colored beret was a wet dream created by the last E-9 who was assigned to the Pentagon Air Staff; (initials are AD) he table topped this initiative along General Shinseki's justification lines with the black beret issue that we're all familiar about. He tickled the ears of a few GO's and got his little beret project approved. Now enter into the fray a new AFSC/MOS called the Combat Rescue Officer or CRO who is charged to command SERE as well as Pararescue or PJs and well almost without exception we all looked at this ugly baby kinda sideways and attempted to give it the sanity check that it deserved. Well out goes ole Chief "AD" and in ushers the current Cheif "MS" who convinced us that SERE really knows they aren't operators but they need the beret as an incentive for recruitment and retention and that is all... Well, truth be told that train had already left the station with the work that Chief "AD" had put in and as many of you know once something that has been blessed out of the Pentagon by a GO is approved it takes a great deal of help from God to change and frankly that battle wasn't and isn't worth fighting let alone worth the energy.

I know these facts undisputedly because I was the very first CRO assigned to the 336th Training Group which is the clearing house for SERE.

Now with that said there was a secondary agenda beyond getting the beret that was hidden from us CROs and we found out later through back channels coming once again out of the Pentagon and the current E-9--Chief "MS" was attempting to get approval to convert the entire SERE community into an all jump career field... for his troubles he not only got disapproved for this push but the SERE community also fell under investigation for validation/justification of their current jump billets... So in the end they (SERE) were lucky just to keep what they had... This stink also oozed out of the Pentagon down to the Major Command who owns SERE; AETC= Air Education Training Command run by General Cook at the time who made a trip over to the 336th and during his visit a resident E-9 attempted to broach the subject in a semi-open forum with the General and got shot painfully in the face by the General for his troubles... I was there and it was very ugly.

Okay, so there's the history of it. It's unfortunate that SERE uses a modified scroll and beret as retention/recruitment devices in order to make themselves feel "special" but that is what their leadership at that time decided was best and they made it happen.

I have stated when directly asked by anyone including my own SERE subordinates that I believe a beret is a device that traditionally in the past has been the issue head gear that symbolizes an elite airborne unit and that it is misplaced beyond this design when used as a retention/recruitment device. Now having said that, I am duty bound and obligated to support SERE in all my power as an officer within their ranks but this doesn't mean that I'll write them a blank check because they want something shiny and new or because little Johnny PJ has one or this and that. And that is that... These
are the facts as I know them on this issue, any questions? If not, I'll go back into lurk mode.

**Team Sergeant** · 10-07-2006, 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunPig

TS

Being and AF guy, the fact the SERE guys have a beret ...of any color...means absolutley nothing to me. The fact they are willing to train people in SERE disciplines means absolutley everything to me. I attended many courses intsructed by AF SERE Instructors and we had a several SERE NCOs on staff for many years. They are proficient in their task for the most part and provid much needed training. Its a necessary task just like about anything else...and if all it takes a ten bucks worth of headgear to make 'em happy, then I guess it's money well spent (I'm sure that's not the case however).

I disagree with your postion on AF combatants though: In the fighter world you are correct, but most of the combatant fliers in AFSOC are enlisted...not officers. Of those, there are Gunners, Flight Engineers, Loadmasters, and Radio Operators. Most ST (CCT-PJ-CW) are also considered combatants. Not that it matters anyhow what terms are used to define the "harvesters of sand poodles", but the job needs to be done neverthless.

I'll bet you were just stating that "tounge in cheek" anyhow to see if you could tweak any AF lurkers on this site weren't you? That TS is sure one sly Dog!

BTW: I see the SERE beret on some of our NCOs just about every day at work...it is the most uggglleee shade of pea green you have ever seen. There is no mistaking it, that's for sure.

V/R
Gunpig

Gunpig,

In the Army we have combatants, combat support and combat service support troops.

Army Combatants are trained to meet the enemy where ever, destroy him and take and hold land. You know the ones that go in after shock and awe and shoot the bad guys right in the face at close range and make camp on his former property.

You were saying?

TS