11-04-2018, 17:05
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 18 yrs upstate NY, 30 yrs South Florida, 20 yrs Conch Republic, now chasing G-Kids in NOVA & UK
Posts: 11,901
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Niger Operation Punishment(s)
This sucks..
Quote:
An Operation in Niger Went Fatally Awry. Who Is the Army Punishing?
In one of the final chapters in a lengthy investigation into how four Americans died on an obscure battlefield, some of those who fought in the pitched firefight have been reprimanded, while senior officers who approved the mission have gone unpunished.
By Thomas Gibbons-Neff
Nov. 3, 2018
The Army has punished two members of the Special Forces team ambushed in Niger last October for their decisions before the mission and for insufficient training alongside their Nigerien allies in advance, according to military officials. Four others in their chain of command were also disciplined.
Some of those punished in recent weeks included the Green Beret team leader, Capt. Mike Perozeni, and his second in command, a master sergeant. Those absent from the six letters of reprimand include the two senior officers who approved the mission and who then oversaw the operation as it went fatally awry.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/w...cNTMxRj_7bvMOo
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and we are still waiting on the NCSI SEAL report
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JJ_BPK is offline
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11-04-2018, 17:25
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#2
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
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Interesting read on who got punished and why.
Very interesting on who didn't.
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Pete is offline
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11-04-2018, 18:37
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#3
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: C.S. Colorado
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Yeah if the story is correct why is why is the BC and GC getting off and the rear D force provider getting hammered? You mean to tell me that the BC and the GC did not know the team was ill prepared?
I said it before the team bares responsibility for its failures to prepare so is the punishment based on the idea that the team had expected to be prepared and ready for on call missions because they knew the possibility? I understand that I have seen the poorest most unprepared crop of team sgts coming around in the last 10 yrs and not because they aren't trying they are just too young and immature. Regiment as a whole leadership is horrible to say the least the word psychophant is a fitting description these days with Obama leaders still in. They are culpable for the dereliction of duty to manage the leadership of the unit and select the best guys for the job....not just capable we are all capable E7 and up.
So what I read into this is the company leadership is being punished for not being honest about the teams readiness or they were lied to but never verified
The team leadership is being punished for being ill prepared knowing they were going into a potential capture/kill mission or lying to its leadership and saying they were
I smell some CYA embarrassment as the regiment is now having to explain the little things that were huge and can't to a SECDEF who doesn't tolerate suck a substandard approach to mission readiness....SOF has too long been emplacing impossible burdens on teams by mismanaging the unit and hurting retention and recruiting forcing teams to take on new guys out of a broken Q-course on short notice,
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WarriorDiplomat is offline
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11-05-2018, 04:38
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#4
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Ok, so the same thing happened to a team in Afghanistan in 2006. They went on a mission to kill a bad guy that had killed one of their terps. The mission went terribly wrong. 2 guys killed (1 was Tom Maholic the TmSgt), 1 wounded severely (medically boarded later).
Their punishment?
Silver Stars and a 60 Minutes interview.
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miclo18d is offline
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11-05-2018, 07:30
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#5
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Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,461
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Major Van Saun took over the unit one month before the deployment after the Company had already conducted its PMT. Just another reason we are stupid as a Regiment and the Army as a whole we switch people out all the time at the worst times all for promotion timelines or on a Commanders rating profile.
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7624U is offline
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11-05-2018, 15:04
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#6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miclo18d
Ok, so the same thing happened to a team in Afghanistan in 2006. They went on a mission to kill a bad guy that had killed one of their terps. The mission went terribly wrong. 2 guys killed (1 was Tom Maholic the TmSgt), 1 wounded severely (medically boarded later).
Their punishment?
Silver Stars and a 60 Minutes interview.
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We were there at the same time. I was listening to the radio when Tom was hit. He was a former Team mate on 25 and we served together at the Academy. He was a great teammate and friend.
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1stindoor is offline
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11-05-2018, 15:50
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#7
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If there was not a criminal element involved there should be no "punishment"..........
People make bad decisions in the military, it's how we evolve, don't like it don't join.
I do find it moronic that whomever sent them on this mission has not been relieved. (wasn't some "special operations" idiot Air Force general in charge of "ground soldiers" at the time?)
Theory still stands': Shitte only rolls downhill.
SJW are now in Special Operations.
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Team Sergeant is offline
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11-05-2018, 17:51
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#8
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western WI
Posts: 6,824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Sergeant
I do find it moronic that whomever sent them on this mission has not been relieved. (wasn't some "special operations" idiot Air Force general in charge of "ground soldiers" at the time?)
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TS, how did you know I was doing some reading on Opn ANACONDA...? Oh, wait - there's more than one?
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Badger52 is offline
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11-05-2018, 18:37
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#9
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Location: C.S. Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miclo18d
Ok, so the same thing happened to a team in Afghanistan in 2006. They went on a mission to kill a bad guy that had killed one of their terps. The mission went terribly wrong. 2 guys killed (1 was Tom Maholic the TmSgt), 1 wounded severely (medically boarded later).
Their punishment?
Silver Stars and a 60 Minutes interview.
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According to the story this team is also getting awards WITH punishment?? They say it is appropriate and doable?
You and your team were screwed up, dereliction of duty, leadership failure....but you did great while screwing up here's your SS
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Last edited by WarriorDiplomat; 11-05-2018 at 18:40.
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WarriorDiplomat is offline
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11-05-2018, 20:17
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#10
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CDR SOC Africa, Company CO and SGM, Team Leader and Team Sergeant were punished.
The only ones I see not punished were the Battalion and Group COs and CSMs.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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11-05-2018, 23:19
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#11
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
Posts: 931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miclo18d
Ok, so the same thing happened to a team in Afghanistan in 2006. They went on a mission to kill a bad guy that had killed one of their terps. The mission went terribly wrong. 2 guys killed (1 was Tom Maholic the TmSgt), 1 wounded severely (medically boarded later).
Their punishment?
Silver Stars and a 60 Minutes interview.
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I know who you are speaking about. I knew about half that team personally, as well as the POS ASOT Level-III guy that stayed back at the FOB during that mission.
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Basenshukai is offline
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11-05-2018, 23:23
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#12
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
CDR SOC Africa, Company CO and SGM, Team Leader and Team Sergeant were punished.
The only ones I see not punished were the Battalion and Group COs and CSMs.
TR
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Kind of odd right? Especially since their duty description on the OER usually clearly states being responsible for the "training, and welfare" of their battalion. Maybe they should remove that part from now on.
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Basenshukai is offline
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12-09-2018, 08:45
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
Posts: 931
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Mattis Erupts Over Niger Inquiry and Army Revisits Who Is to Blame
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/u...er-mattis.html
It looks like the SecDef was not amused by the lower-level scapegoating in this incident.
"WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Jim Mattis was livid last month when he summoned top military officials to a video conference at the Pentagon to press them about an investigation into a 2017 ambush in Niger that killed four Americans on a Green Beret team. His anger, Pentagon officials said, came from seeing news reports that junior officers were being reprimanded for the botched Niger mission while the officers directly above them were not.
Days later, a senior officer who had largely escaped punishment was told he would be reprimanded. Another senior officer’s actions before and around the time of the mission were also under new scrutiny."
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Basenshukai is offline
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12-09-2018, 12:11
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#14
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Did someone miss the "Commander is responsible for everything..." lesson from Army Day One?
Looks like the SecDef is going to hold people accountable. What a novel concept.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-09-2018, 12:13
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#15
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If I'm that young Captain I resign there is no turning back from this and he dodged a bullet....if he doesn't see the dirty backstabbing politics of the "brotherhood" then....
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WarriorDiplomat is offline
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