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Old 02-04-2015, 13:00   #16
Javadrinker
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Originally Posted by letinsh View Post
What most people tend to forget is that attached to "Rights" is another "r" word - Responsibility. In this case, as PedOncoDoc made abundantly clear, your choices can have potentially lethal consequences for others.
Thank you for adding that other "r" word.
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Old 02-04-2015, 15:49   #17
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FWIW...<<from Bloomberg Politics>>

Also, http://www.bloombergview.com/quickta...fying-vaccines

MOO, casting the anti vaccination movement as primarily liberal hogwash is not a good position politically. The GOP has its own issues with science and scientific inquiry. YMMV.
Because it is a primarily liberal issue. Christie and a handful of others are just as stupid as many of the liberals.

I do find it amusing that you use a extremely left-wing article to demonstrate your point......

I'm guessing that you believe the UAW is not rigging the union vote either......






Workers try to boot union for fourth time after ‘rigged’ election

By Bill McMorris
·Published February 04, 2015
·Washington Free Beacon

Workers in Alabama are staging a fourth attempt to kick the United Auto Workers (UAW) out of their plant following claims that stuffed ballot boxes derailed their last vote.

Employees at the NTN-Bower Corporation, a ball bearings manufacturer, have unsuccessfully tried to boot the labor giant out of their factory for two years.

Workers voted to decertify the UAW in an earlier election, but an Obama-appointed National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) panel threw out the election.

Another election was held in January of this year. The UAW prevailed, but it was later revealed that 148 ballots were cast—eight more than the entire workforce. Employees convinced the NLRB to throw out those results with the help of the National Right to Work Foundation.



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...cmp=latestnews
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Old 02-04-2015, 16:34   #18
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Originally Posted by JJ_BPK View Post
OK,

This FOG needs some guidance..

Scenario:
I and my family, and my friends family, 80% of the world get their MMR and all the other vaccines available, on time, on budget, on their butts.

The parents down the street are avowed anti-vacciners and didn't get their kids shots.

Their kids get measles,,
We are all vaccinated,,
What's the problem???

This does not seem to be a problem that needs to be settled in a court of law??

It's called Darwinism,,
We give awards for the annul winners,,
and it is very successful.

Did I miss something??


Confused
JJ-

It's not that simple and simplifying this issue to the level of individual liberty or darwinism is misguided and even dangerous. IIRC herd immunity requires 95+% of a population (herd) to protect the other 5%. The concern is that for some preventable diseases (MMR for example) that percentage has dropped below the 95% threshold. Hence, Pedonddoc's very valid concern for his patients.

As a dyed-in-the-wool libertarian I am the first to defend every persons right to self determination. But there are limits and those limits are when my exercise of my right endangers my neighbor. It's not always about me. I think this is a clear public health issue and not a political one. So you can believe that vaccines cause autism or whatever, the facts are that they don't. Hold that belief if you wish but get your vaccines. you simply do not have the right to put Pedondoc's patients at risk!

And that's all I got to say about that!

PS: JJ my use of the word you is in the collective. Just for clarity, Bro.
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Old 02-04-2015, 17:25   #19
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[QUOTE=Team Sergeant;574166]Because it is a primarily liberal issue. Christie and a handful of others are just as stupid as many of the liberals.

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I do find it amusing that you use a extremely left-wing article to demonstrate your point.
Then here's a similar story from the Wall Street Journal on line edition <<LINK>>.

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I'm guessing that you believe the UAW is not rigging the union vote either.
I have articulated my views on unions many times on this BB. A handful of members of this BB also have to endure my occassional ranting about union workers on Facebook and Twitter.

IRT the politicization of public policy issues, my position today is the same as it has been for years. The first political party that finds a way to step out of its own echo chamber and pattern of reflexive accusations/denials and to spend more time talking about solutions is going to be the party that shapes American policies and politics for generations to come.
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Old 02-04-2015, 18:00   #20
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"IRT the politicization of public policy issues, my position today is the same as it has been for years. The first political party that finds a way to step out of its own echo chamber and pattern of reflexive accusations/denials and to spend more time talking about solutions is going to be the party that shapes American policies and politics for generations to come." Sigaba

You have a lot more faith in the American Public than I do. It becomes less capable of discerning BS every minute.
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Old 02-04-2015, 21:47   #21
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I understand the rant and share your feelings.

Last edited by Red Flag 1; 03-16-2018 at 10:27.
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:03   #22
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Originally Posted by Trapper John View Post
JJ-


As a dyed-in-the-wool libertarian I am the first to defend every persons right to self determination. But there are limits and those limits are when my exercise of my right endangers my neighbor. It's not always about me. I think this is a clear public health issue and not a political one. So you can believe that vaccines cause autism or whatever, the facts are that they don't. Hold that belief if you wish but get your vaccines. you simply do not have the right to put Pedondoc's patients at risk!

And that's all I got to say about that!

PS: JJ my use of the word you is in the collective. Just for clarity, Bro.

I stand informed,
will correct my view,
thanks to all the medical pro's for their informed opinions,
even FOG's need some re-education..
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:04   #23
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The government brings some of this on itself by politicizing everything. Do you trust the CDC when they tell you something not to have injected a political stance into it? I don't.
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Old 02-05-2015, 14:53   #24
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The government brings some of this on itself by politicizing everything. Do you trust the CDC when they tell you something not to have injected a political stance into it? I don't.
Some days (more of them in recent years) I have that cynical view too, Sinjefe, and with good reason. However, on balance I agree with Sigaba's POV and he is correct that the party that can step outside of its ideological echo chamber will set the agenda.

As to John Q Public, there really is something to the notion of collective wisdom. A case in point would be a jury trial - the 12 jurors, I think on balance, get it right even when every one of them individually may be a pin-head.

The current challenge is to create a rational message that rises above the noise.
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Old 02-18-2015, 07:56   #25
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The Anti Vaxers

My wife and I have had a few of the non-vaxers around us, for a very short period. Once we determined their position, we politely faded away.

One of my boys, is Autistic and I can vouch that this was not through vaccinations. The middle boy of three, the signs that something was amiss was detected when he was forming in the womb. The advances in medicine and science are incredible, and the advances I witnessed with the ability for the Docs to detect something, just during the time span for my three sons over six years, is amazing.

My middle boy showed the signs or symptons of Autism and we notified the doctors. Through the efforts of the medical and teaching profession here in Central Bucks, he has made great strides. No medications, but we have agreed to allow the medical professionals to document his journey, as I believe it will help foster medical opinion of what may have led to his advances.

From the other children I have seen, as well as the many parents I have met, there appear to be no two children alike. Yet, there are a few parents that are absolute in their cause to blame the pharmaceutical companies for their child's Autism. With so many variables, they stand firm. Their children are regularly sick and they do not want the vaccinations.

Okay, good for you. My wife and I long ago decided to keep those parents at a distance, and they have learned to stay away from us.
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Old 02-18-2015, 11:07   #26
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Disinformation

Disinformation agents like Alex Jones and Natural News promote things like this. A former friend of mine (who was super anti government but lived off the system IRONY!!!) sent me this article http://www.naturalnews.com/036255_MM...ourt_case.html. So I pry into this article and see that isn't a single comment on it. Not one fellow tin foiler even gave an atta boy? I decide to take it one step further and googled Italian court ruling without the natural news precursor and got this article.http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywil...-vaccine-link/

I shared this with my former friend and his tin foil crew and I was accussed of being a government tool.

I'm at awe sometimes at all the information we have available to us these days and people still rather listen to the people screaming the loudest without question or evidence yet us "government tools" are in the wrong. Interesting times..
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Old 02-18-2015, 13:28   #27
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As a guy who studies the Bible quite often, I have never found a writing therein that would hold that a vaccination is some type of sin. What am I missing? Does someone know something contrary?
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Old 02-18-2015, 16:08   #28
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The force of argument delivery does seem to have weight when it comes to this matter, its true, which is a poor reason to take anyone seriously.

Perhaps this argument form appears to be sound when combined with Shifting the Burden of Proof, another fallacy used in this pointless debate.
Indeed. You forgot to mention the part whereas being offended also automatically makes you wrong.

I do agree with the anti's however allowing government to mandate it will create a slippery slope. There needs to be a focus on repealing laws. Americans are unknowingly committing 5 felonies a day on average. We have too many laws and mandates.

I'm not a fan of government (especially the current) doing anything except for authorizing force against muslim scum.
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