12-29-2017, 14:29
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Bump Stocks, thoughts?
Wanna see a bunch of SF soldiers argue?
ATF Accepting Public Comment on Backdoor Bump Stock Gun Control
by AWR Hawkins28 Dec 2017
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives is currently accepting public comment on their plans for backdoor bump stock gun control.
On December 22 Breitbart News reported a Department of Justice announcement that the ATF would be seeking to redefine the term “machinegun,” so as to include aftermarket devices that do not convert semiautomatic firearms into fully automatic weapons. As of now, only mechanisms/alterations that truly convert a semi-action into a full-action are governed by the National Firearms Act (1934). The efforts to redefine the term “machinegun” center on new controls for devices that merely “mimic” full auto fire.
The pertinent portion of the DOJ’s announcement:
Those engaged in the business of manufacturing, importing, or dealing in NFA firearms must be registered with the Attorney General. 26 U.S.C. 5801, 5802. When the NFA was enacted in 1934, only a handful of firearms qualified as machineguns, such as the Thompson submachine gun. Over time, however, as firearms technologies have advanced, manufacturers and the public have attempted to develop firearms, triggers, and other devices that permit shooters to use semiautomatic rifles to replicate automatic fire without converting these rifles into “machineguns” within the meaning of the statute. Consequently, questions have arisen about whether these types of devices should be classified as machineguns (or machinegun conversion devices) pursuant to section 5845(b). See, e.g., Internal Revenue Ruling 55-528 (1955) (considering whether types of “Gatling Guns” constitute machineguns); ATF Ruling 2006-2 (examining a firearms accessory device that, when activated by a single pull of the trigger, initiated an automatic firing cycle that continued until release).
TF has issued a number of private letters to individuals and manufacturers who voluntarily submitted such devices for classification under the NFA and GCA. In addition, ATF has promulgated a regulation that defines “machinegun,” See 28 CFR 478.11, but that regulation mirrors the statutory language of the NFA and GCA and provides no further interpretation.
The ATF’s intention to redefine the term “machinegun” was published in the Federal Register on December 26, 2017. The agency is accepting public comments on their plans for backdoor gun control from now until late January.
cont:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...k-gun-control/
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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12-29-2017, 14:35
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Bump Stocks, I've no use for them
But then again, I've never used one. And if you want to see very inaccurate fire, then just try full auto.
I'm against American Law Enforcement, federal, state and local from employing fully automatic fire for one and only one reason, it does not discriminate. Fully automatic fire is only useful when employed to kill many targets and it comes from a military machinegun.
And yeah, I'd be the first "expert witness" on a murder trial against law enforcement for employing a fully automatic weapon against human targets.
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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12-29-2017, 16:15
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#3
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western WI
Posts: 6,824
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I think they're pretty much worthless (and I've used one that belonged to a friend of a brother-in-law). They are admittedly a hoot for the range entertainment factor but, oh yeah, worthless.
I do not want ATF re-writing the definition of anything unless they're getting out a big eraser.
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"Civil Wars don't start when a few guys hunt down a specific bastard. Civil Wars start when many guys hunt down the nearest bastards."
The coin paid to enforce words on parchment is blood; tyrants will not be stopped with anything less dear. - QP Peregrino
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Badger52 is offline
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12-29-2017, 16:42
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#4
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 1,588
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I have one succinct comment for the ATF: "Shall not infringe."
I neither want nor need a bump stock, but I also don't want the ATF emboldened to start placing new restrictions on civilian ownership of firearms and accessories.
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bblhead672 is offline
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12-29-2017, 18:06
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Big Sky
Posts: 426
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I have no use for a bump stock. I completely agree with TS on automatic fire. I also have no use for a .500 nitro pistol. That doesn't mean someone out there gets some enjoyment out of one or the other. Shooting is a sport and a past time for honest people and what ever "trips their trigger" to make them go out and buy useless things to shoot, then more power to them.
The ATF does not need to redefine, rewrite, or add to any current gun control statutes. There is enough stupidity in them as it is.
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Exceptions are so inevitable that no rule is without them - except the one just stated. - Paso Por Aqui, by Eugene Manlove Rhodes
"I ask you sir, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people........" George Mason
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sfshooter is offline
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12-29-2017, 20:38
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#6
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie
I don't think they or automatic weapons should be restricted.
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The founders didn't want anything restricted. The Redcoats were after the cannons that the Colonists had cached at Concord. If we were fighting them today they may have been after an Abrams stored in a garage. Should we be able to have a B-52? Sure, if the militia can come up with the funds to buy one. But there are workarounds.
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"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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12-29-2017, 21:26
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,578
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Bump Stocks are for burning money and for the untrained to feel cool.
Controlled pairs/double-tapping is the way to go.
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Joker is offline
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12-29-2017, 21:48
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 5,747
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I'm all for anything that would make the bureaucrats unhappy - I dont think they are worth their weight in dog shit but knowing they make the ATF unhappy makes me think everyone should have one
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Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.
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Box is offline
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12-29-2017, 22:25
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#9
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Harmony Church
Posts: 2,634
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Quote:
Bump Stocks are for burning money and for the untrained to feel cool.
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Agree. A costly cheap thrill and a complete waste of ammo.
Well aimed medium range fire with my AR or M1A out in the desert is a lot more interesting.
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mojaveman is offline
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12-30-2017, 05:50
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Occupied Northlandia
Posts: 1,697
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The first time I saw bump fire was my younger brother. He used a ball point pen against a post. Banning them solves nothing. Using them is a waste.
Here’s a thought, put crazy people in institutions and arrest criminals!
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper
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miclo18d is offline
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12-30-2017, 09:45
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: No. Va
Posts: 407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM
The founders didn't want anything restricted. The Redcoats were after the cannons that the Colonists had cached at Concord. If we were fighting them today they may have been after an Abrams stored in a garage. Should we be able to have a B-52? Sure, if the militia can come up with the funds to buy one. But there are workarounds.
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So you are fine with grenades and RPGs for anyone with the cash to purchase one?
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Leozinho is offline
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12-30-2017, 10:05
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#12
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leozinho
So you are fine with grenades and RPGs for anyone with the cash to purchase one?
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For an organized militia group as the Constitution intended, yes. What were cannons back in 1775? There was adult leadership back then. I admit that today it may be problematic. But, in theory, that was the idea.
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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12-30-2017, 11:06
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: No. Va
Posts: 407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM
For an organized militia group as the Constitution intended, yes. What were cannons back in 1775? There was adult leadership back then. I admit that today it may be problematic. But, in theory, that was the idea.
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So not allowed for the masses, but okay for an organized militia, if I understand you correctly.
Is there currently a militia that meets your definition of organized?
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Leozinho is offline
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12-30-2017, 11:35
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: sharq-el-ouset
Posts: 498
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Grenades, RPG's, etc ARE allowed under the current NFA laws. If you have the proper licenses, you can even have HE rounds (the storage requirements are the largest restriction and cost). Machineguns are not / have never been illegal. They only require a $200 tax paid to the government. The largest cost associated with purchasing an actual full-auto machine gun is that according to the 1986 Hugh's amendment, no more can be manufactured thus driving the cost of all previously registered FA weapons through the roof. However, Destructive Devices such as cannons (mortars / artillery), rocket launchers (RPG's / LAW's), and grenade launchers (M203 / M320 / etc) can all be newly manufactured and transferred to normal civilians. The ammunition is expensive, but so were the stores of powder and shot that the red coats were after.......
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bubba is offline
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12-30-2017, 11:36
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM
For an organized militia group as the Constitution intended, yes. What were cannons back in 1775? There was adult leadership back then. I admit that today it may be problematic. But, in theory, that was the idea.
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So WMD’s are good to go too? You know for “organized militia groups” ……. (Before we continue I need to get some tinfoil ready.)
Laws limiting machineguns were enacted decades ago. They are still legal and quite expensive, and you must go through hell to own one. A law I’d like to see is when we limit the sale of firepower to civilians the same is done for law enforcement. There is absolutely no reason for the FBI, DEA, ATF, state or local law enforcement to have a machinegun in their arsenal. But most have them and they need to be banned.
We are stopped from modifying our vehicles in many ways to keep them “street legal”. And just like the vehicles we have laws that stop us from modifying guns making them fully automatic. We all know that the bump stock is a work around solution to the poor mans machinegun. Ever heard of Tannerite? Poor mans explosive and widely available to the most stupid humans on the planet.
I don’t have the answer of how to keep nasty tools out of the hands of idiots. No one is going to outlaw cars/trucks, but we consider 35k killed on our highways every year the cost of doing business. Unlike most “anti-gun” Americans I’ve little doubt why all left-wing politicians want guns banned and it’s the same exact reason they would ban free speech given the opportunity. It’s all about controlling the masses.
In 2014 it was said we had 253 million cars and trucks on U.S. roads and every year they kill 35k people. Guns on the other hand number more than 300 million and some think as high as 600 million guns in America. Annually they are used to “murder” just over 8k with the other thousands being suicide. So why are some Americans screaming for more gun laws and not more vehicle laws? Socialist/communist control.
The socialist/communist activists fear a man with a bolt action rifle and three rounds more than any vehicle on the road, and for good reason. It’s obvious they don’t fear the law of the land, they do however fear those that would take the law into their own hands.
And there’s more to be cautious of than guns……. Armed robots employed by law enforcement is one.
“In July 2016, Dallas police chief David Brown decided to end a violent standoff1 with Micah Johnson,2 who had fatally shot five officers and wounded several more, in an unusual way.3 As a makeshift solution, the police attached a pound of the plastic explosive C4 to a Remotec F-5,4 a robot designed for bomb disposal.5 The intentional detonation of the explosive killed Johnson, and was the first deliberate use by American police of a robot armed with deadly force.6”
https://www.uclalawreview.org/policing-police-robots/
(Personally, I don’t really care how law enforcement killed this bottom-feeder after what he did, that said we need to ponder how law enforcement does business in the United States.)
Pick your battles wisely.
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