Old 05-05-2010, 16:58   #46
Genseric
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Very true. Have you considered using petroleum jelly instead? It has many more uses than liquid fuel, is less likely to spill and contaminate your other items, and can provide a sustained flame vs. the flash of a volatile fluid. Don't forget the road flares in your trunk for emergency signaling produce a pretty good flame, too.
I hadn't heard of that particular substance before, I will look into it.
The charcoal lighter fluid was just a small idea I had, didn't look into it farther.
I think i'll take both, though, since barbecuing is very nice...
It's not like an extra pound in the car is going to kill me, i'm pretty durable.
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Old 05-05-2010, 19:09   #47
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Hand sanitizer...pretty good for starting fires, too.
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Old 05-05-2010, 19:21   #48
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Hand sanitizer...pretty good for starting fires, too.

Alcohol? I must try that.....brb
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:30   #49
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Even better than petroleum jelly: Get some petroleum jelly, put a glob of it into a baggie, toss in some cotton balls, kneed them all together until the balls are impregnated. Fill a film canister or pill bottle with 'em. Takes up very little space, and will start just about any fire. They burn for a surprisingly long time.
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Old 05-07-2010, 11:58   #50
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Then take 4 or 5 Kitchen Matches, wrap them individually with masking tape. (twisted and rolled masking tape also makes a neat candle). Throw in a piece of 80 grit sandpaper. The sandpaper comes in handy when your trying to strike a match when the whole world is soaked after a rain.
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Old 06-22-2010, 22:29   #51
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My .02

In response to LarryW - You post reminds me of the movie On the Beach with Greggory Peck...

In my *jump/Bug Out Bag*

All crammed into a Northface Field bag - I mean crammed

100' paracord
25' float/climb rope
'biners + 8 loop
Kershaw Multiblade Knife (utility, filet, saw/scaler)
Film canister fishing kit (hooks, weights, wrapped in 12lb test)
Sewing kit
Wire cutters
Vicegrips
Multihead driver
pens
paper
GPS
Multitude of AA batteries
Compass
Windup watch
Surefire ED + spare batteries
pen light
Rugar SP101 3" .357 + 3 speed loaders
Pill bottle (Loritab, Flexiril, Cipro, Alieve, Ibuprofin)
98% Deet
Antibio cream
gauze, bandages, ACE, fabric bandaids
chapstick
SPF50
Magnesium/flint (cheap and would set an icecube on fire)
Zippo+small fuel bottle
small pocket knife
220yd spool of 12lb test mono
whetstone, gun+reel oil
scissors
safety pins
cinch straps
duct tape
water purification tabs
hanging off the strap is my Gerber Woodsman's Pal

Keep it with me in the car, along with some other stuff, rain gear, sleeping bag, black plastic bags, 100' climbing rope, ratchet straps, hunter coat, work gloves, stove and fuel - all I need is some lye (so sayeth the last cop to search my car)

I'm sure I left something out, but that's the gist of what I carry everywhere in my car. My friends pick at me about it, but it's the short day trips where people end up dead for being unprepared. They're always happy when I pull out the bag because they need something though...
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:46   #52
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Nightfall, some things you might want to consider is breaking your Bug Out Bag into smaller individual elements (tool kit, first aid, emergency food stuff, etc). This can allow you to reduce spoliage or destruction of some things whilst stored in your car (the Misissippi delta can be rather warm...an ambient temperature of 90 degrees climbs to 140 degrees in 40 minutes in a closed car). Seperation of related items can also allow you to make updates to the configuration to fit the evolving situation.

IMO, the biggest consideration in survival is situational awareness. This can be defined broadly as being aware of the weather headed your way, to being aware of how ready you and your family are to strike out from the home place and live on the trail, to the character revealed in those you love that living on the trail can present. Be patient and calculating in your decisions. Whether you shelter in place or evacuate, the decision may very soon be irreversible. The home place is a known, the trail may not be. Remember you will survive as well as your weakest person.
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Old 06-24-2010, 17:34   #53
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Nightfall, some things you might want to consider is breaking your Bug Out Bag into smaller individual elements (tool kit, first aid, emergency food stuff, etc). This can allow you to reduce spoliage or destruction of some things whilst stored in your car (the Misissippi delta can be rather warm...an ambient temperature of 90 degrees climbs to 140 degrees in 40 minutes in a closed car). Seperation of related items can also allow you to make updates to the configuration to fit the evolving situation.
It is all seperated into smaller bags (to quote a friend, "I've never seen anyone with so many little black bags. Look ANOTHER ONE!"). That was just my off the top of my head list of what I have in there.



Quote:
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IMO, the biggest consideration in survival is situational awareness. This can be defined broadly as being aware of the weather headed your way, to being aware of how ready you and your family are to strike out from the home place and live on the trail, to the character revealed in those you love that living on the trail can present. Be patient and calculating in your decisions. Whether you shelter in place or evacuate, the decision may very soon be irreversible. The home place is a known, the trail may not be. Remember you will survive as well as your weakest person.

Amen.
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Old 06-30-2010, 15:09   #54
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How `bout spare safety/shooting glasses? They can be useful if you want avoid an eye injury (and the ophtalmologist is far away).

Contact lens` storage liquid (i.e. A^con Opt|free ) can be helpful as an ersatz for eye-care antibiotics in case of eye inflammation or infection - positively tested on human (myself )
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Old 06-30-2010, 22:08   #55
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Chris O`Crooh, IMO you are right to plan for at least one extra set of glasses. Contact lenses may require more regular maintenance than your emergency situation might allow, so make sure you have a pair of traditional eyeglasses with your current prescription. Pack a magnifying glass, too. There is nothing more frustration than having to repair your glasses without having them on your face! Any appliances you use regularly to assist you should have a high priority in your planning for a back-up. Good points.

There are several referrals on this site re: first aid kits and I recommend you study them. Your planning should also be sensitive to not having all your eggs in one basket. Consider making your bug out bag modular in ways to allow the loss of one section or pack will not mean the loss of all provisions for that critical contingency.
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:11   #56
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Thank You from an underprepared amatuer

Thank you all for the information in this thread and several of the others (Be Prepared, Survival Scenarios). My husband and I have always had "Go Bags" but now I have so much more information regarding things we need to add to each.
We're back to the planning phase, which I think probably never really ends, especially when the other half of the relationship is AD so we could be moved to a new location at any time.
Our current planning is around the fact that we are now in the Pacific Northwest and both of our families are in the Southeast. We're trying to decide based on different scenarios if we're better off staying in the area or trying to go the 3000 mile distance to get back to them (and the uncertainty of if they will be there when we get there).
I'm very grateful for the different posts regarding how to handle being AD as well as living on post and how to handle disaster scenarios. Worst case planning at the moment is what to do if I'm here and he's not. Where do I go? Do I stay? In total communication/grid breakdown, how would we contact each other? If I go, do we decide on a rendezvous location? Etc.

Again, thank you all for the wonderful information and for stimulating overdue conversations in my household.
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:11   #57
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IMHO the basic variant is "I stay at home, you come back". If you had to escape, you both have to mark out several RV points; then, if if you had to abandon that place and move to the next scheduled in yours plan, you would leave a prearranged sign in prearranged place (north side of church tower, or at certain road sign, or whatever you will choose).
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Old 06-21-2011, 16:53   #58
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Advice: BOBs for kids?

Gentlemen, thank you for the invaluable advice in this thread and the other survival threads on this board. I've read them all and made notes. My question is about kids in a survival situation and what they should have if they should be separated from an adult.

Specifically, in our case, boys 9 & 11. I'm putting together a "bailout bag" for each, for emergencies on our boat. We will be traveling the Gulf of Alaska by small boat, following the coastline of Kodiak Island. If something happens to myself and my husband, but the kids make it to shore, I want them equipped to survive until help arrives (at most 3 weeks, at which point family will have not heard from us at an appointed time).

I really liked QP Razor's list here. Whatever container we use needs to be waterproof and buoyant, but not too large to hinder swimming. I'm thinking a small drybag that can be clipped by carabiner to their PFD.

Items:

Lighter (easier for little fingers?)
Petroleum jelly cotton balls in ziploc or other firestarter
Powerbars, instant soup/oatmeal/pasta
Water treatment tabs
Nalgene bottle
First aid (plus safety pins, duct tape, dental floss)
Space blanket
Metal cup
Bear spray
Bug spray
Whistle (maybe a mirror?)
Personal information
Knife (Leatherman, other folding knife)
Headlamp or flashlight
2-way radio?
Extra batteries for radio & flashlight
550 cord
Small tarp?
Waterproof shell (pants & jacket)

Instruction beforehand on S.T.O.P. (stop, think, observe, plan) and fire, shelter, food & water priorities. Also, the area we will be in has several remote cabins. It's possible they can follow the coastline and find one. However, I'm uncomfortable having them venture away from the coast. There is also the possibility of signaling fishing vessels. Cell phone service is nonexistent. The environment is often chilly, wet, and contains large predators. There are very few trees, but plenty of driftwood for fires. Neither boy has a firearm.

Because of the weight concern, things like sleeping bags & extra clothes, tent and other motherly wishlist items are not on the list, but a drybag floats, no?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. If this post is in the wrong section, I apologize. There are several good threads on survival, but this one dealt with packing a bag.

Thank you,

v/r
Susan
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:56   #59
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Susan:

1. Lots of large predators not afraid to take unarmed humans, as you noted. Children would be particularly vulnerable.

2. An EPIRB or equivalent emergency locator beacon, or even a SPOT might be beneficial and preferred to waiting three weeks under a potential constant threat for a search effort.

3. Drybags are good, as are coolers, if you have room.

4. The gear is useless without the knowledge of how to use it and a plan to follow.

5. Your average child is unable to physically carry their needs for a day in the woods, much less three weeks. Hell, I would have trouble humping three weeks worth of gear and chow, minus the water. If you limit the load to something they can carry, it is not going to be adequate for three weeks of survival in that environment. You need more like a light 72 hour kit, and a locator beacon or a plan for your family to launch a search if you miss two days of contacts on the SPOT.

Best of luck.

TR
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Old 06-22-2011, 22:16   #60
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Because of the weight concern, things like sleeping bags & extra clothes, tent and other motherly wishlist items are not on the list, but a drybag floats, no?

v/r
Susan
I don't know the exact scanario, but a couple of notes.

If we are talking about being soaked in cold climate, we're talking about getting warm very rapidly. I've taken my boys out roughing it in northern Michigan regularly. Breaking through, even into waist deep water can be a major danger.

In each backpack, in the most available location, we carry a lighter, Sterno, a clear poncho and some dry clothes, even if those clothes are nothing but thick pajamas and socks. (We use lots of ziplocks.)

The idea is if one of us gets wet, and the temp is very low, we put on the poncho, sit down, set the sterno inside, and light it, making a warm tent. Changing to something dry is priority one. There's no time to gather wood and start a fire. Even trying to notify the rest of the group can wait those few minutes. I've had reason to use the poncho solution a couple of times myself and it's great.

Weight may be of no concern for a large extra bag, if you're talking about getting to shore, even if the "extra goods" are numerous.

If there's enough air in a bag/container it is "weightless" until the kids drag it a few feet onshore. Making a few trips to the bag to get their goods while setting up camp, should be in the "can do" category.

And, that SPOT emergency locator is a very inexpensive solution, at about $8 or $10 per month.
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